Canada's healthcare saved her; Ours won't cover her - page 5

Canada's healthcare saved her; Ours won't cover her Source: LA Times... Read More

  1. by   CRNA2007
    Science is one thing junk science is quite another!




    Quote from blue note
    Well, if global warming is "left wing propaganda," then conservatives should take their kids out of school and teach them intelligent design then, since science is obviously not a priority!
  2. by   ivanh3
    Quote from CRNA2007
    A. It's not the function of the public school system to be teaching anything other than a standard education curriculumn.

    B. We have public school graduates in this country that cannot read or write because of the lack of a basic education curriculumn and being taught a bunch of left wing propaganda about global warming and conflict resolution instead of reading and writing and we won't even get into basic math skills.
    Quote from CRNA2007
    Science is one thing junk science is quite another!
    In a survey of scientists (n=3146) were asked if a) was there global warming? and b) was it influenced by human activity? 92 percent said yes to "A" and 82 percent said yes to "B". Of those scientists 97 percent of those that identified themselves as climatologists said yes to "B". Exactly how is this based on "junk" science? It is just like "right wing propagandists" to say that global warming is a myth. So you are an educated person, why is it junk science? Why is it propaganda? What are your sources? God forbid we try do something about climate change, end up being wrong, but in the process make the world a nicer, cleaner place to live. Not a bad deal if we are wrong about climate change, unlike "Lets bomb this country that had nothing to do with anything and if we are wrong....we just won't admit we are wrong!"

    You are right. There are deficits in our school system, but I find it almost laughable, but really very sad and scary, that you would blame this on liberals when time and time again it has been the conservative party in this country that has cut education budgets. Again, it is just like conservative, right wing propagandists to get out there and just spout stuff with no credible sources or facts to back them up. Cheney and Bush were the masters of that, and of course very much in line with global warming is human influenced=myth=junk science.

    Ivan the very liberal left wing propagandist
    Last edit by ivanh3 on Jun 7, '09
  3. by   lamazeteacher
    Oh dear, dear, dear, CRNA:

    I'm so sorry to disappoint you in your wish to standardize all education. It can't be done! Human beings, not R2D2 teach school and lend their personalities/characteristics and backgrounds to the way material is presented. If it was otherwise, no credibility would be given the curriculum. It's the teachers' faith that it's important to teach the items on it, that makes it happen.

    However, due to lack of respect engendered in homes wherein teachers and the government and any other authority figure or organization is put down, thyat foster the behavior seen at school. My friends who are teachers are exhausted at the end of their 10 hour days, when they come home to grade papers and do lesson plans. Keeping order in the classroom is a daunting task, since disrespect incurs actions we only encounter in psych units!

    Spend a day in a middle school and another one in a high school class, and you'll see what happens. Learning, if it does happen occurs in the midst of
    noise and mayhem, which would take all day to turn off, if someone could.
    It isn't pretty. You'll willingly return to your job, happy that kids aren't on the streets. Oops! They will be, next month. If you then fill them with your erroneous views about science, they'll present even greater problems in school in the fall.

    Have you gotten your information off the web, from clergy, or what? Are you one of the folks who believe that if it isn't in the Bible, a theory or knowledge doesn't exist?
    Last edit by lamazeteacher on Jun 6, '09 : Reason: spacing
  4. by   CRNA2007
    Cool now a survey is judged scientific fact. Puuhlease their is no proof that man causes global warming and as a matter of FACT the Earth ihas been cooling for several years now. Just typical left wing fear mongering designed to confiscate more wealth from tax payers.



    Quote from ivanh3
    In a survey of scientists (n=3146) were asked if a) was there global warming? and b) was it influenced by human activity? 92 percent said yes to "A" and 82 percent said yes to "B". Of those scientists 97 percent of those that identified themselves as climatologists said yes to "B". Exactly how is this based on "junk" science? It is just like "right wing propagandists" to say that global warming is a myth. So you are an educated person, why is it junk science? Why is it propaganda? What are your sources? God forbid we try do something about climate change, end up being wrong, but in the process make the world a nicer, cleaner place to live. Not a bad deal if we are wrong about climate change, unlike "Lets bomb this country that had nothing to do with anything and if we are wrong....we just won't admit we are wrong!"

    You are right. There are deficits in our school system, but I find it almost laughable, but really very sad and scary, that you would blame this on liberals when time and time again it has been the conservative party in this country that has cut education budgets. Again, it is just like conservative, right wing propagandists to get out there and just spout stuff with no credible sources or facts to back them up. Cheney and Busy were the masters of that, and of course very much in line with global warming is human influenced=myth=junk science.

    Ivan the very liberal left wing propagandist
  5. by   CRNA2007
    My wife is a middle school teacher so yes I know exactly what goes on in schools. The fact you have friends as teachers is meaningless how many of them have taught on Indian Reservations in the middle of the no where?? So take your condesending attitude somewhere else until you have actual first hand knowledge of actually how schools operate.


    Quote from lamazeteacher
    Oh dear, dear, dear, CRNA:

    I'm so sorry to disappoint you in your wish to standardize all education. It can't be done! Human beings, not R2D2 teach school and lend their personalities/characteristics and backgrounds to the way material is presented. If it was otherwise, no credibility would be given the curriculum. It's the teachers' faith that it's important to teach the items on it, that makes it happen.

    However, due to lack of respect engendered in homes wherein teachers and the government and any other authority figure or organization is put down, thyat foster the behavior seen at school. My friends who are teachers are exhausted at the end of their 10 hour days, when they come home to grade papers and do lesson plans. Keeping order in the classroom is a daunting task, since disrespect incurs actions we only encounter in psych units!

    Spend a day in a middle school and another one in a high school class, and you'll see what happens. Learning, if it does happen occurs in the midst of
    noise and mayhem, which would take all day to turn off, if someone could.
    It isn't pretty. You'll willingly return to your job, happy that kids aren't on the streets. Oops! They will be, next month. If you then fill them with your erroneous views about science, they'll present even greater problems in school in the fall.

    Have you gotten your information off the web, from clergy, or what? Are you one of the folks who believe that if it isn't in the Bible, a theory or knowledge doesn't exist?
  6. by   blue note
    Quote from CRNA2007
    Cool now a survey is judged scientific fact.
    Your logical deduction gets a fail. The survey was cited to show that most scientists (you know, actual experts) believe that the evidence supports that global warming is fact, not that the survey itself was the proof.

    Puuhlease their is no proof that man causes global warming and as a matter of FACT the Earth ihas been cooling for several years now. Just typical left wing fear mongering designed to confiscate more wealth from tax payers.
    Yes, you have found out our left wing dastardly plan to tax those CRNAs earning six figures! That's why we go around spreading our left wing facts. :icon_roll

    Top anti-global warming lies debunked
    (warning: actual scholarly scientific studies with pesky facts and data cited - should not be confused with junk science)
  7. by   VanLpn
    Quote from tgirl84
    why do all canadians with money come to the states to get high risk surgery? because it's not as great as it sounds folks! universal care has its advantages, but let's not forget the disadvantages, namely paying a butt-load of taxes. i was born in canada, my father went to medical school there, and the day he graduated, he moved to the us to complete his residency here and never went back. he refuses to work there! do you like going to the dmv? well, that is what going to the doctor will be like if uncle sam is running the show. i'd personally would have a choice of which specialist i go and see, another thing i would give up with universal health care. are you guys stopping to think about the choices you'll be giving up? and to those who think doctors charge too much, think of all the people who go to the hospital every year, who must be seen, but don't pay a dime! majority of the people i take care of in the er personally. most the time it isn't even an "emergency", they know they will be seen, but won't have to pay! government again at its finest...
    so, your father took advantage of a subsidized university education made possible for him because of the higher taxes and then left never to return... classy guy. for him to take advantage of a very long education at a greatly reduced cost and then flee because of paying the higher taxes that made that possible reeks of hypocrisy. i think he is morally obligated to pay canada back by paying the true cost of his university education.
    for someone supposedly born in canada you are certainly short on facts. i can choose my doctor and my specialist. this myth that canadians have no say in who their doctor is needs to stop, it is particularly worrisome that someone born here is helping to perpetuate this fear mongering.
  8. by   XB9S
    Education and global warming, I had to dig a bit to find out what this thread was originally about.

    It would see that we have strayed a little from the topic so to refresh

    Canada's Healthcare System

    Maggie Yount, a Canadian citizen, got months of treatment and rehab in Canada after a drunk driver crashed into her car in 2007. The accident broke 13 of her bones, injured her brain and left her in a coma for four days.

    Yount wasn't surprised when the letter from insurance giant Anthem Blue Cross arrived the other day. Yet she couldn't help but be frustrated.

    "Some medical conditions, either alone or in combination with the cost of medication, present uncertain medical underwriting risks," Anthem informed her. "In view of these risks, we find we are unable to offer you enrollment at this time."


    Can we try to stay on topic please

    Thanks

    Sharrie
  9. by   blue note
    NDP leader Jack Layton defends Canada's health care system in Washington D.C.

    So take it from me - Public health care was worth the fight, and for Canadians, it's worth fighting to keep it strong. Americans should know that when the battle begins here in earnest once again. It'll be dirty, it'll get nasty and victory isn't certain.

    The battle lines have already been drawn. President Obama has thrown down the gauntlet and put a viable plan on the table - one that will cover the 46 million Americans without health insurance, and stop medical bills from being the most common source of bankruptcy in America. His grassroots campaign begins in earnest in just three days, and people across America are filled with hope that change will come.

    But progressive leaders and the American people will need to be united in their resolve, because the forces of the vested interests are gathering against change that's in the public interest. And they're sowing the seeds of fear with myths and lies about Canadian health care.

    Here's the truth: Canada and the US spend about the same on public health care - around 7% of GDP according to the OECD. But in Canada public health care covers everyone and in the States it covers just one third of the population. In fact, when you add in the costs of private care, Canada spends 10% of GDP on health care and the US spends 16%. That's $2,500 less per capita - and in Canada everyone is covered!

    Canada does well on quality of care, too. Maybe you've seen those TV ads with Canadian private care promoter Dr Brian Day saying - quote - "patients are dying as they wait for care in Canada". That's simply not the case. In fact - half of acute care patients are seen within 6 minutes in emergency. And for much elective surgery, like knee and hip replacements in Ontario, there are no longer wait lists. Wait times don't go away in a private system, but they are reduced by better practices like surgeons working in teams, as programs in many provinces have proved.

    The truth is that Canadian health outcomes are excellent. The public data is very clear: From infant mortality to healthy life expectancy to injury recovery, Canada outperforms the United States. Satisfaction rates are high too - 85% of Canadians are "very" or "somewhat satisfied" with the service they receive.

    Our system is founded on equality. That equality ensures everyone receives good health care, and good care in turn means a better chance in life, it means more equality and opportunity in Canada. What the advocates of for-profit health care in Canada are doing is putting wealth before the health of their patients. You know, when the admitting nurse checks your credit card balance before your pulse, you're as far away from patient-centred care as you can get. And to the vast majority of Canadians, that's simply not fair.

    The Canadian health care system isn't perfect, but it works. And today America desperately needs a health care system that works here, too. I believe that with resolve, united purpose and bold vision what you'll get it. You will - finally - have a health care system that shares the best of your values. A public health care system that works for the American people.
  10. by   CRNA2007
    i'm sure you have the same disdain for all the deadbeats in this country that utilize the multitude of services and never contribute?




    Quote from vanlpn
    so, your father took advantage of a subsidized university education made possible for him because of the higher taxes and then left never to return... classy guy. for him to take advantage of a very long education at a greatly reduced cost and then flee because of paying the higher taxes that made that possible reeks of hypocrisy. i think he is morally obligated to pay canada back by paying the true cost of his university education.
    for someone supposedly born in canada you are certainly short on facts. i can choose my doctor and my specialist. this myth that canadians have no say in who their doctor is needs to stop, it is particularly worrisome that someone born here is helping to perpetuate this fear mongering.
  11. by   wowza
    Quote from ivanh3
    In a survey of scientists (n=3146) were asked if a) was there global warming? and b) was it influenced by human activity? 92 percent said yes to "A" and 82 percent said yes to "B". Of those scientists 97 percent of those that identified themselves as climatologists said yes to "B". Exactly how is this based on "junk" science? It is just like "right wing propagandists" to say that global warming is a myth. So you are an educated person, why is it junk science? Why is it propaganda? What are your sources? God forbid we try do something about climate change, end up being wrong, but in the process make the world a nicer, cleaner place to live. Not a bad deal if we are wrong about climate change, unlike "Lets bomb this country that had nothing to do with anything and if we are wrong....we just won't admit we are wrong!"

    You are right. There are deficits in our school system, but I find it almost laughable, but really very sad and scary, that you would blame this on liberals when time and time again it has been the conservative party in this country that has cut education budgets. Again, it is just like conservative, right wing propagandists to get out there and just spout stuff with no credible sources or facts to back them up. Cheney and Busy were the masters of that, and of course very much in line with global warming is human influenced=myth=junk science.

    Ivan the very liberal left wing propagandist
    A survey, even of scientists, is hardly proof. At one time, the greatest minds in the world thought the earth was flat. A survey of them would have told us the earth was flat. I am not saying global warming isn't occuring, just that a survey doesnt give us proof one way or the other.

    I had once heard from a professor at my university that the eruption of Mt St Helens produced more Co2 than we had put out since the industrial revolution. I tried to find a source today but couldn't. Anyone with insight into this?


    On an off topic note: my take on the education system is that the problems actually stems from the culture in which some kids are brought up. School and education are devalued while social status or material possessions or sports or "real life" is stressed instead. Until we can change the environment kids grow up in, we can throw all the money we want to at the problem but we will only make marginal progress.

    For instance, if a kid's parents don't care how he does in school and don't take an active interest in his school, he will lose interest as soon as it becomes hard. You can have all the teachers and resources but most kids will give up without the proper support outside of school.

    Quote from blue note
    Well, if global warming is "left wing propaganda," then conservatives should take their kids out of school and teach them intelligent design then, since science is obviously not a priority!
    Few conservatives support intelligent design. It seems only the most vocal conservatives support it. Kind of like the most vocal conservatives are vehemently against abortion. I for one, do not feel the republican party (esp the most recent bush) accurately represents the conservative view point any longer. They have strayed to far to the religious right and away from their real base.

    Frankly, global warming isn't fact yet. Our models of climate change are rudimentary at best. Many (?most) of the facts support it and we should try to combat it.

    Ironically, some of the best and cleanest energy sources (nuclear for one) are being fought tooth and nail by the same people pushing to prevent global warming. Vast resources are being pumped into the wrong alternative energies. Based on thermodynamics, wind and solar and geothermal can never provide the amt of energy we actually need. We need a more logical and potentially effective plan.

    Here's a good read
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/1...cement-speech/
  12. by   herring_RN
    I heard this speech on the radio.
    Interesting.
    He likely has his bias as do we all - http://people.forbes.com/profile/keith-o-rattie/30163

    I would rather err on the side of safety.
    Even give up cars. Why not?
    With safe bikeways my life would be better.
    Save the roads for emergency vehicles.
    Last edit by herring_RN on Jun 6, '09
  13. by   lamazeteacher
    "So take your condesending attitude somewhere else until you have actual first hand knowledge of actually how schools operate." quote from CRNA's post

    I have first hand knowledge, as I've worked as a School Nurse, taught classes on health education subjects, like Breast Self Examination, and prenatal education at High Schools (in the gym where the acoustics are awful) - but no, not on a Native American reservation "in the middle of nowhere". I have given nursing care to rather innovative Eskimo children, however.

    I did not intend to be condescending. Sorry you took my post that way.

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