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Nurses Call the Governor of Tennessee

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You are reading page 6 of Nurses Call the Governor of Tennessee. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

14 minutes ago, Horseshoe said:

I think the reality of her going to court is that she will be punished and the legal system will say "well, took care of that," and be done with it. I fail to see how that will put any pressure on facilities to improve working conditions if the only person held to account is the nurse. 

I agree and I think the hospital should have more consequences than the slap on the wrist that they received. The bottom line is that when there is a expectation of hurry and get it done (with real consequences from admin if not done), too many (avoidable) distractions, too many "warnings", too many patients, too many forms, etc etc things will happen because we are all human. We all know how to prioritize but still need to be able to "think" about that throughout the day. Older nurses may be better at critical thinking because of having better preceptors and experience prior to the current horrible environment that makes this close to impossible to learn (for newer nurses) and /or do.

Is this nurse wrong, of course, but IMO, not because of merely bypassing safety overrides (that not too long ago didn't even exist) but because she did not even read the label of the medication. 

The nurse is responsible for her actions and the hospital is responsible for their lack of a safe environment. Unitl the environment changes these types of things will continue to happen. It is not enough for the hospital to simply blame the nurse and be done. We all know how those types of "correction plans" work (or should I say don't work). Real change is needed!

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20 minutes ago, mtnNurse. said:

Jory, I'm going to get to your other points in another post, but for you to write this -- well, you obviously haven't read my posts in which I talked about all of that. Whether it's an appropriate charge is up for debate (laws are open for interpretation) and I have been debating it and wishing you'd go back and read my good points about "reckless homicide" and how it does not apply to her, at least not from anything about the case or about her that we have knowledge of so far. If you're curious why I think this, please go read all posts on the other threads. I suspect you aren't curious why I think this or why anyone would want to defend her and it seems like it upsets you that we aren't getting it over with and locking her up in prison this very minute, because of what you say here:

A nurse's job and how we have to buck the system in order to prioritize patient safety over fulfilling the impossible demands of the administration does not compare to a drunk driver!!!

You are assuming I didn't read them. I read them. You are wrong.  You can shout it from the rooftops all you want. You are still wrong.  

I suggest you look up the criteria for reckless homicide in the state of Tennessee. It fits exactly.  This is the same criteria that is used when someone's WILLFUL negligence causes the death of another.  The fact she is a nurse DOES NOT MATTER.  

This is EXACTLY like driving drunk.  Buying alcohol is legal. Being drunk is legal.  There is no law against drinking and driving because as long as you are not drunk, you can have a couple of drinks and drive.  Even if you get a DUI, as long as you don't hurt anyone, nobody charges you with "attempted" homicide.  But...if you kill someone, yes...you do...because you made the CHOICE to break the law, the choice to put others at risk and statistics caught up with you.  They don't charge you with first degree or second degree murder because the drunk driver didn't get into the car drunk with the intent of killing someone, but they should have reasonably known they were unsafe to drive.

Same thing happened with this nurse.

The Vanderbilt nurse had standards of care she refused to follow. She has a degree, a license, competencies, a completed orientation, etc.  She KNEW what the policies were.  She just didn't care. 

This was a willful action...it wasn't a mistake.  She purposely bypassed seven check points in place that caused the death of this patient.  

You are obviously unfamiliar with the penalties for reckless homicide.  She is unlikely to serve a day in prison.  They can do that in Tennessee.  But she will be a convicted felon because there is too much evidence to exonerate her.  

Administration has NO BEARING...none, on my ability to practice the five rights of medication.  None.  This nurse was not a new grad. I have stopped even a physician from interrupting me when I needed to complete a safety check. 

There has to be a limit, in how far you can be negligent before you are criminally charged when someone dies.  We do it for every other profession in this world...healthcare is no exception  

What you are essentially advocating for is for nurses to be babysat by more policies and procedures. Yet when it's convenient for you and you feel you are being micro-managed you want to say, "But we are educated/licensed professionals!"  

We don't get it both ways.  

If you are going to rally around a nurse, rally around the one that got fired because she advocated for her patient and lost her job.  Not one that didn't give a flip about her patient and how her actions could impact her.

Edited by Jory

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Thanks, but no thanks.  I have no desire to stand up for a nurse who bypassed multiple safety checks, didn't know the medications she was responsible for, and caused a patient's death with their negligence. 

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I have started a petition on change.org and I am currently writing letters to the Davidson County DA, the Western Tennessee DA, the State Attorney General, etc. 

Please check out the petition and let's get it out to the public. This is a scary situation for all of us!

https://www.change.org/p/glenn-funk-vacate-grand-jury-indictment-of-radonda-leanne-vaught-former-registered-nurse

Jerry Hamm, FNP

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Please everyone understand that we are not "standing up" for or "rallying" to support the nurse's alleged error. If we make errors, we are held responsible and the appropriate professional boards should discipline us, but when errors are UNINTENTIONAL, we should not be held criminally reliable. If any of you think you are beyond being in this situation one day because you are not going to ever make an error, you are living in a world of euphoria and your error will come sooner than later. 

If this nurse is charge with MURDER and ABUSE for making an UNINTENTIONAL ERROR, this is setting a precedent in the Court system for any of us to be facing criminal charges if we make a mistake in our professional practices. 

I agree to hold a nurse accountable for his/her actions. To criminally indict a healthcare member for an unintentional error is absurd. Even statutes that are in place require that the precipitating event that caused harm or death be INTENTIONAL. Poor judgement, lack of experience as a nurse, a medication override, being tired, working too many hours, having too many patients, etc does not constitute INTENTIONAL error; those are contributing factors that might lead to an unintentional error.

It is still so sad to see healthcare providers, namely nurses, who do not support each other and who are always at each other's throats like immature elementary school kids. The negative comments and the immaturity of comments from many nurses here are the some of the main reasons that our professional will never reach the level of accepted professionalism from other professionals such as medical doctors. How can the nursing board or medical board (or anyone else) ever give us independence or any other freedoms when many nurses are childish and bring nothing to this field but negativity. 

If you wish to support the petition, please do so. I am forever grateful and indebted. For those of you who are negative, not supportive, childish … that's great … you be who you are going to be. When you are in this situation, and you will be one day because of your euphoric state that you are not capable of making such an error, I will also petition for you when you are facing criminal charges! 

Thanks to the supporters! 

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1 minute ago, Jerry Hamm said:

Please everyone understand that we are not "standing up" for or "rallying" to support the nurse's alleged error. If we make errors, we are held responsible and the appropriate professional boards should discipline us, but when errors are UNINTENTIONAL, we should not be held criminally reliable. If any of you think you are beyond being in this situation one day because you are not going to ever make an error, you are living in a world of euphoria and your error will come sooner than later. 

If this nurse is charge with MURDER and ABUSE for making an UNINTENTIONAL ERROR, this is setting a precedent in the Court system for any of us to be facing criminal charges if we make a mistake in our professional practices. 

I agree to hold a nurse accountable for his/her actions. To criminally indict a healthcare member for an unintentional error is absurd. Even statutes that are in place require that the precipitating event that caused harm or death be INTENTIONAL. Poor judgement, lack of experience as a nurse, a medication override, being tired, working too many hours, having too many patients, etc does not constitute INTENTIONAL error; those are contributing factors that might lead to an unintentional error.

It is still so sad to see healthcare providers, namely nurses, who do not support each other and who are always at each other's throats like immature elementary school kids. The negative comments and the immaturity of comments from many nurses here are the some of the main reasons that our professional will never reach the level of accepted professionalism from other professionals such as medical doctors. How can the nursing board or medical board (or anyone else) ever give us independence or any other freedoms when many nurses are childish and bring nothing to this field but negativity. 

If you wish to support the petition, please do so. I am forever grateful and indebted. For those of you who are negative, not supportive, childish … that's great … you be who you are going to be. When you are in this situation, and you will be one day because of your euphoric state that you are not capable of making such an error, I will also petition for you when you are facing criminal charges! 

Thanks to the supporters! 

I know you're passionate about this but could we try to avoid calling opposing views as "childish" and "immature". It's just as bad if we can't have a conversation about a polarizing issue without resorting to labels.

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3 minutes ago, Jerry Hamm said:

Please everyone understand that we are not "standing up" for or "rallying" to support the nurse's alleged error. If we make errors, we are held responsible and the appropriate professional boards should discipline us, but when errors are UNINTENTIONAL, we should not be held criminally reliable. If any of you think you are beyond being in this situation one day because you are not going to ever make an error, you are living in a world of euphoria and your error will come sooner than later. 

If this nurse is charge with MURDER and ABUSE for making an UNINTENTIONAL ERROR, this is setting a precedent in the Court system for any of us to be facing criminal charges if we make a mistake in our professional practices. 

I agree to hold a nurse accountable for his/her actions. To criminally indict a healthcare member for an unintentional error is absurd. Even statutes that are in place require that the precipitating event that caused harm or death be INTENTIONAL. Poor judgement, lack of experience as a nurse, a medication override, being tired, working too many hours, having too many patients, etc does not constitute INTENTIONAL error; those are contributing factors that might lead to an unintentional error.

It is still so sad to see healthcare providers, namely nurses, who do not support each other and who are always at each other's throats like immature elementary school kids. The negative comments and the immaturity of comments from many nurses here are the some of the main reasons that our professional will never reach the level of accepted professionalism from other professionals such as medical doctors. How can the nursing board or medical board (or anyone else) ever give us independence or any other freedoms when many nurses are childish and bring nothing to this field but negativity. 

If you wish to support the petition, please do so. I am forever grateful and indebted. For those of you who are negative, not supportive, childish … that's great … you be who you are going to be. When you are in this situation, and you will be one day because of your euphoric state that you are not capable of making such an error, I will also petition for you when you are facing criminal charges! 

Thanks to the supporters! 

I haven't seen the immaturity you cite. This has been a respectful debate.

I do agree that this is a worrisome situation and that nurses should speak out.

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3 minutes ago, juan de la cruz said:

I know you're passionate about this but could we try to avoid calling opposing views as "childish" and "immature". It's just as bad if we can't have a conversation about a polarizing issue without resorting to labels.

Apologies if I misstated or if I was not grammatically correct. I am not calling anyone who is not supportive childish or immature. I respect everyone's opinions even if we do not agree. It was a generalized statement to some of the immature and childish comments I have read. Thanks for pointing it out though.

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11 minutes ago, Jerry Hamm said:

Please everyone understand that we are not "standing up" for or "rallying" to support the nurse's alleged error. If we make errors, we are held responsible and the appropriate professional boards should discipline us, but when errors are UNINTENTIONAL, we should not be held criminally reliable. If any of you think you are beyond being in this situation one day because you are not going to ever make an error, you are living in a world of euphoria and your error will come sooner than later. 

If this nurse is charge with MURDER and ABUSE for making an UNINTENTIONAL ERROR, this is setting a precedent in the Court system for any of us to be facing criminal charges if we make a mistake in our professional practices. 

I agree to hold a nurse accountable for his/her actions. To criminally indict a healthcare member for an unintentional error is absurd. Even statutes that are in place require that the precipitating event that caused harm or death be INTENTIONAL. Poor judgement, lack of experience as a nurse, a medication override, being tired, working too many hours, having too many patients, etc does not constitute INTENTIONAL error; those are contributing factors that might lead to an unintentional error.

It is still so sad to see healthcare providers, namely nurses, who do not support each other and who are always at each other's throats like immature elementary school kids. The negative comments and the immaturity of comments from many nurses here are the some of the main reasons that our professional will never reach the level of accepted professionalism from other professionals such as medical doctors. How can the nursing board or medical board (or anyone else) ever give us independence or any other freedoms when many nurses are childish and bring nothing to this field but negativity. 

If you wish to support the petition, please do so. I am forever grateful and indebted. For those of you who are negative, not supportive, childish … that's great … you be who you are going to be. When you are in this situation, and you will be one day because of your euphoric state that you are not capable of making such an error, I will also petition for you when you are facing criminal charges! 

Thanks to the supporters! 

While I support BON discipline for this nurse, I do not feel criminal charges are an appropriate response.

HOWEVER, please note that the charges this nurse faces DO NOT require that there be any malice or intent in her actions. So if you want to craft a good argument why these charges are inappropriate, you need to take the fact that there was no intent on the part of this nurse out of your petition and present other more valid and cogent points.

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4 minutes ago, Horseshoe said:

While I support BON discipline for this nurse, I do not feel criminal charges are an appropriate response.

HOWEVER, please note that the charges this nurse faces DO NOT require that there be any malice or intent in her actions. So if you want to craft a good argument why these charges are inappropriate, you need to take the fact that there was no intent on the part of this nurse out of your petition and present other more valid and cogent points.

I totally agree. Her actions met the criteria for the charge and so did the previous cases I've cited on another post. In fact, a reduced charge based on a plea bargain was what saved the nurses from jail time. I wish there's a way out of this criminal charge which I'm also opposed to but I can't come up with a way out of it.

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4 minutes ago, juan de la cruz said:

I totally agree. Her actions met the criteria for the charge and so did the previous cases I've cited on another post. In fact, a reduced charge based on a plea bargain was what saved the nurses from jail time. I wish there's a way out of this criminal charge which I'm also opposed to but I can't come up with a way out of it.

Just want to point out that just because her actions may meet the criteria for the criminal charge doesn't mean the prosecutor is required to charge her. Prosecutors decline to file charges all of the time, for various reasons. 

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19 minutes ago, Horseshoe said:

Just want to point out that just because her actions may meet the criteria for the criminal charge doesn't mean the prosecutor is required to charge her. Prosecutors decline to file charges all of the time, for various reasons. 

Do you happen to know the chances of a prosecutor refusing to file the charge after a grand jury determined the accused should face trial?

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