Everyone is in NP school !

Specialties NP

Published

You are reading page 3 of Everyone is in NP school !

lwsoccjs

185 Posts

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

Another fun fact. AANP had 14836 people take the test in 2016. With the pass rate I have already mentioned 12,106 people passed for family. Then take ANCC for family in 2016 5107 people took the test. 4205 people passed. Equally a 82.3% pass rate. Coming to 16,311 family NP certified graduates. Now we take BLS expected from from 2014 to 2024. Has it at 53,400 jobs. Hmm, one year 16 thousand times 10 you still think there is no problem?

lwsoccjs

185 Posts

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

To close my argument I will leave you with this. That 53k number I mention from the bureau of labor statistics is CRNA, midwives and all NP professions. Are we really going to play this game that there is a shortage? That 16k newly graduated is just family not any other such as Adult or Pediatrics which provide primary care. If we want to play numbers here you go.

shibaowner, MSN, RN, NP

3 Articles; 583 Posts

To close my argument I will leave you with this. That 53k number I mention from the bureau of labor statistics is CRNA, midwives and all NP professions. Are we really going to play this game that there is a shortage? That 16k newly graduated is just family not any other such as Adult or Pediatrics which provide primary care. If we want to play numbers here you go.

I am going to respond to your 3 most recent posts in this one post.

1) My point about the tests is that they do not have a 100% pass rate. Unfortunately, I don't have the numbers for what % eventually pass, but I doubt it is 100%.

2) You seem to assume that none of the existing NPs will stop practicing. That is erroneous - some existing NPs will leave practice for retirement, personal reasons, or to do other things.

3) FNP numbers do not divide between primary and acute care. In addition, some of the new grads may work part time and teach part time or go into administrative roles. So, let's say it is about 8,000 FNPs that pass the test and go into primary care.

4) You have conveniently ignored the free market and demographic factors at play.

5) You have also ignored the distribution vs supply issue.

Basically, crappy NPs won't get hired. That is a good thing. We still need the BEST people to see NP as a good career and these folks should be encouraged to go to a good NP school. They should also be encouraged to look for jobs in areas where NPs are needed. Here is a good resource on where there is a shortage of primary care and mental health care providers. Another advantage to working in such areas is loan repayment programs.

HRSA - Find Shortage Areas by Address

Let's consider another field - high tech. Everywhere we hear that young people should go for STEM education and jobs. Silicon Valley is desperate for new talent and pays huge bucks for top technical talent. Do you know that the majority of US STEM graduates have trouble finding a job? Yet, do you hear high tech people discouraging young people from considering STEM? No, of course not. They need to keep the talent flowing so they can have their pick of the litter.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-stem-surplus-yes-and-yes.htm

There is also a glut of lawyers. However, the top law firms still compete for the best new grads and experienced associates and pay an average of $160 K starting salary.

Welcome to Your First Year as a Lawyer. Your Salary Is $16,. - The New York Times

A glut of lawyers dims job prospects for many - Houston Chronicle

lwsoccjs

185 Posts

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

The argument still at is core and relevant to the OP is to many people are in NP school. Which by the numbers is a fact. Btw that 53,000 number I referenced is the BLS projected number over a ten year time of increase in jobs. I have already covered that we are more than 3x that negating your argument. No one is arguming that hopefully employers will only hire good talent. Does not make up for the core issue of over saturation.

shibaowner, MSN, RN, NP

3 Articles; 583 Posts

The argument still at is core and relevant to the OP is to many people are in NP school. Which by the numbers is a fact. Btw that 53,000 number I referenced is the BLS projected number over a ten year time of increase in jobs. I have already covered that we are more than 3x that negating your argument. No one is arguming that hopefully employers will only hire good talent. Does not make up for the core issue of over saturation.

Perhaps there is oversaturation. I happen to trust the market system to work through this issue. Even if there is oversaturation, it does not justify discouraging talented people from pursuing an NP career.

In addition, there is absolutely no legal basis for restricting the number of NP schools as long as those schools meet accreditation criteria and operate lawfully. The feds are already cracking down on shady for-profit schools and some have closed.

lwsoccjs

185 Posts

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

Again all weak arguments. The best in any field will always get a job. But generally speaking to tell someone to go towards an overall saturated field is wrong. This is especially wrong by spinning it and pretending there isn't a problem which seems to be done far to often.

JustKeepDriving

119 Posts

Specializes in Forensic Psychiatry.

The fact that this is a thing:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24765[/ATTACH]

While this is also a thing (same facility):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24768[/ATTACH]

Where someone can literally make more as an RN than an NP at the same facility - with lower liability? Tells me that there is a glut of Nurse Practitioners. And yes, I know people who have taken this job, no they weren't for profit students, and yes they came from well known schools (plus they had in specialty nursing experience). This is a problem and when stuff like this exists? There tells me that people are graduating desperate enough to sell themselves, very, very short.

Specializes in Critical Care.
As it should. With a profession so prone to over-saturation already occurring and with a potential for worsening, those "talented individuals" deserve the right to know that they may well encounter difficulty obtaining employment upon completion. Should they find a job, it may present with subpar pay and benefits. Many posters have been on this forum long enough to see that the job situation apparently isn't improving. As it was with lawyers, supply overshadows demand, and salaries drop. I have seen many, many posts on these forums about NP's taking jobs for $60-70K/year, because that's "all that's available", and there are too many NP's in their area, so they can move, or just accept such salaries.

There is a lot of potential for good, lucrative opportunities for NP's in the right places, but don't kid yourself, some areas are not nearly as fortunate, particularly as fortunate as the state of California that caters more-so to NP's because of the strong nursing union presence in the state.

Potential career changers absolutely deserve to know the facts. Barrier to entry protects a profession. Take nurse anesthesia for example. The AANA has set high standards and requirements. NP schools very, very rarely down turn candidates. Yet, PA schools do quite often. My frustration lies with how easy it is to become an NP. That needs to change.

I strongly agree with your last point, "ICUman". ;)

shibaowner, MSN, RN, NP

3 Articles; 583 Posts

To Just Keep Driving: I don't understand your post. The first job is for an PMHNP and pays $79 to $97K. the 2nd job is for an RN and pays $80K. The RN pay is $76K but there is a location premium added. I would assume a PMHNP would also get some location premium. Last time I checked 79 > 76. And I seriously doubt any PMHNP would take the bare minimum.

I am a new grad NP w/o RN experience and I just started a PMHNP job for $95K, increasing rapidly to $140K within 18 months, assuming I meet performance objectives. And this is in a very affordable location (I can rent a nice 3 BR 2 BA house for $1200 to $1600). Our clinic is looking to hire TEN NPs and/or PAs in the next year. And I know the top pay for an NP is $190K now at this facility. They provide a 3 to 6 month intensive training program as well.

NP recruiters contact me constantly for NP jobs as well as for management jobs. I sent in an application to Sharp in the San Diego area before I passed the license exam. I got a personal note from their recruiter asking me to please apply again after I passed and to call them if I had any questions and they were very interested in me.

In San Diego County, there is an NP-owned company looking for primary care FNPs and AGNPs in the Temecula area (also quite affordable) starting at $140K a year for NPs with experience. They will also consider new grad NPs.

One of my schoolmates, a new grad FNP w/o RN experience, was hired for an extremely competitive NP residency program in the SF Bay Area 2 months after graduating.

NPs who are at the top of their game have no trouble finding jobs, especially if they are flexible on location.

This is how the labor market works in a capitalist economy. The best get hired. Isn't that what all of us want?

shibaowner, MSN, RN, NP

3 Articles; 583 Posts

Again all weak arguments. The best in any field will always get a job. But generally speaking to tell someone to go towards an overall saturated field is wrong. This is especially wrong by spinning it and pretending there isn't a problem which seems to be done far to often.

My arguments are weak? Ha ha ha. You didn't even respond to most of them. And you failed to give any real evidence to support your argument. Based on your logic, I guess we should also tell young people not to pursue law or high tech. I am curious, what professional careers would you recommend to people?

lwsoccjs

185 Posts

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

And by your logic unless you go to a top ten school don't go because only they are the best and get the jobs. Lol have a nice day

shibaowner, MSN, RN, NP

3 Articles; 583 Posts

I strongly agree with your last point, "ICUman". ;)

NP schools rarely turn down candidates? Please tell that to the people who applied to Hopkins, Yale, Columbia, U Penn, UCLA, UCSF, U of Maryland, etc. In fact, please write a letter to each of the Deans of those schools to complain that they are accepting just anyone. I would love to see what response you get.

There is a wealth of information available to prospective NPs providing school rankings, employment prospects by location, by specialty, how to improve one's chances of getting hired, etc. And there is a lot of negativity on this forum that is discouraging prospective NPs. So I say let the market decide.

My purpose here is ensure that alternative views are heard and for prospective NPs to get some encouragement, not just negativity.

+ Add a Comment