done some soul searching, any thoughts?

Specialties NP

Published

I am registered to begin an MSN program focusing on education in the spring, but am having second thoughts. I am a very accomplished clinical nurse, and feel unsettled pursuing a graduate program that does not have a clinical component. The institution I am registered with offers a dual degree ANP/CNS and a post-master's certificate as an ANP. I enjoy education, but do not see a future in nursing for myself that is far removed from clinical, acute care.

So my options are, I can complete the MSN in education and go back for the certificate, or request to switch tracks within my institution to become a ANP/ CNS. Timewise, both options will take about the same amount, but going back for the certificate will cost me more money.

My husband is so tired of talking about this with me. I need some valuable nursing input!!

Cardiac-RN, BSN, PCCN

Right. It does not confer MSN. It is for RNs who have experience in women's health. But, it is a moot point now for all APNs must be MSN-prepared.

There are certificate programs, but are post-MSN only.

Yes. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to make some sort of point. I was really just attempting to provide information since I recognized the program David mentioned.

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

No problem. Thank you for the explanation, ILoveIceCream.

I think that it is interesting that the only three remaining programs that were not MSN programs are either closing or substantially changing. The fact that they were all located in California probably took advantage of vagaries in California law. The fact that the students would not be eligible for Medicare payments is a major problem that in my opinion should have prompted an earlier evaluation of these programs (a statement I made to one of the program directors). The PA programs have the advantage that the FNP could work under their PA license. The WHNP program has no real excuse. While the Davis and Stanford programs were interesting experiments they ultimately were doomed by the MSN (and DNP for that matter) requirements.

David Carpenter, PA-C

David,

What do you think of the UC Davis program as it is now (with the added MSN content for FNP/PA grads)? It sounds pretty neat--graduating with eligibility to work as either an FNP or a PA.

David,

What do you think of the UC Davis program as it is now (with the added MSN content for FNP/PA grads)? It sounds pretty neat--graduating with eligibility to work as either an FNP or a PA.

What it entails now is doing the additional work for the MSN (nursing theory courses) at CSU Sacramento. The additional courses are:

Nursing Theory

Nursing Issues & Ethics

Nursing Research A & B

Health Policy

Educational Program Development in Nursing

Community Health Thesis/Project

There is probably some advantage to the dual degree. Also depending on the state it may be advantageous to be able to use one cert or the other because of the practice acts. However, right now it is an additional year of classes, which to me don't really add that much clinical value to the PA degree.

David Carpenter, PA-C

I contacted the UC Davis FNP/PA program to find out more information. It actually only takes two years to complete the program and receive an MSN-FNP and a PA certificate. They have an option to complete the program in three years for those who feel they need extra time, but it is designed to be a two-year program for most people.

I contacted the UC Davis FNP/PA program to find out more information. It actually only takes two years to complete the program and receive an MSN-FNP and a PA certificate. They have an option to complete the program in three years for those who feel they need extra time, but it is designed to be a two-year program for most people.

Given how busy PA school is and how generally you have little time for any other activities I have a hard time seeing how you are going to fit another 19 semester hours of class into that time. Especially considering this is their statement on working during the program:

" We do not recommend that students work while in the program. The curriculum is quite rigorous, especially considering the hundreds of hours of intense clinical training. Although some students attempt to work, most realize that it is not possible to work while enrolled in the program. Of course, each individual must manage their own time in order to meet their financial realities. We encourage you to make financial plans in advance so that you do not need to work."

The real question should not can it be done, but has anyone done it? On the other hand its easy enough to graduate, work as a PA, then knock out your MSN at night over a year or two. That would still make you eligible and I would guess thats what most of the students do that do the dual degree.

David Carpenter, PA-C

You've got to remember that they've COMBINED the PA and FNP curriculum. It's not like you're doing double duty. It doesn't seem much different from a straight PA program which issues a master's degree in physician assistant studies. This program issues a master's in nursing.

You've got to remember that they've COMBINED the PA and FNP curriculum. It's not like you're doing double duty. It doesn't seem much different from a straight PA program which issues a master's degree in physician assistant studies. This program issues a master's in nursing.

They really haven't combined anything. Thats pretty much a standard MEDEX curriculum. The only thing that they did different was go through the paperwork to allow RNs in the class to sit for the FNP. With the requirement that NPs have a masters in Nursing, UC Davis (or Stanford for that matter) were no longer able to do this. The program does not issue an MSN. The MSN comes from CSU Sacramento's nursing program. What you do get is some credit toward the NP from UC Davis' program. This isn't really any different than the community college programs that hook up with another university to get their students a Masters. You get credit for you PA studies and have to take some coursework from the other program but its usually incorporated into your second year (usually an online pharm, research and thesis project). To get your FNP from UC Davis you have to finish your MSN which according to their website is another 19 semester credits (above and beyond the PA program).

David Carpenter, PA-C

So you're saying that the extra classes needed to get a master's in physician assistant studies (pharm, research, and thesis)--probably at least 10 credits--is do-able, but the extra classes to get a master's in nursing from CSUS through UC Davis' FNP/PA program--19 credits--is not do-able? That's only, like, three classes difference. Spread out over 2 years, I think three extra classes would be plenty do-able.

I understand your point that it might be sensible to take the extra time to do it slower. But as far as comparing it to getting a master's in pa studies, I don't see much difference.

So you're saying that the extra classes needed to get a master's in physician assistant studies (pharm, research, and thesis)--probably at least 10 credits--is do-able, but the extra classes to get a master's in nursing from CSUS through UC Davis' FNP/PA program--19 credits--is not do-able? That's only, like, three classes difference. Spread out over 2 years, I think three extra classes would be plenty do-able.

I understand your point that it might be sensible to take the extra time to do it slower. But as far as comparing it to getting a master's in pa studies, I don't see much difference.

The Masters are usually integrated into the program. It makes a tough second year tougher but doable. Thats one of the reasons personally I went for a Masters program. You can't really appreciate how much information is presented in PA school until you get there. UC Davis has a fairly unique program so it may be doable. The real test will be in a year when you can see how many students are doing the three year and how many are doing the MSN in two years. I would bet more of the former. YMMV.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Please don't take this the wrong way. Just offering another opinion! I don't know how much of a factor money is in your decision but your certainly not going to make any as an educator, and it's a darn shame.

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