If you think you need to call the MD, CALL THE MD!!!!

Nurses Relations

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Decisions to call the MD need to be made on the basis of, "Does the MD need to be aware at this time. Does the patient need interventions that are not ordered? Tests that are not ordered?" And that decision needs to be made by the nurse caring for the patient. (With input from others if necessary, but the decision needs to be made by the nurse caring for the patient.)

Never on the basis of, "Will someone be mad at me for calling?"

So often I hear, "It's Dr. X on call, she's nice, go ahead and call." The only time the identity of the doc on call matters is if it's, "This MD wants to know this immediately, this one would rather hear when they make rounds."

If you're afraid of being yelled at for doing your job, GET OVER IT.

And don't let a coworker talk you out of calling if you feel a call should be made. I've worked on units where you're supposed to get the charge nurse's permission. Those units will throw YOU under the bus along with the charge nurse if things go south. You're the nurse. YOU have the letters after your name. Make the decision. Get input if needed. I'll often have new grads tell me they want to call, and after discussing the situation, we work out that it's "just ..." or something that doesn't actually need a call once we think it through together. But if you think you need to call, it's YOUR patient being cared for under YOUR license, which makes it YOUR decision.

i agree, this drives me absolutely insane. i started my career at a large teaching hospital where residents would answer pages and even come assess the patient in the middle of the night (gasp!) now i work at a private hospital system as a traveler, i would be the eager beaver to page any doctor at 3am if i felt like i should because of exactly what you said... i was told by a surgeon that if i ever called him again in the middle of the night for this issue again, he'd go "ballistic" on me. mind you, i was calling because i just got the patient from pacu and the only pain med ordered was 1 percocet ONCE A DAY.... i also called a doctor at 4:30 for a change in condition (specifically, the patient had virtually no urine output in 4 hours) and he went off at me and then the next day wrote an order "do not call me in the middle of the night for anything." SERIOUSLY? Wish I could say that... oh patients don't press your call light for anything I want to sleep... if you call a doc for a bp less than 210/100 they will virtually hang up on you... UGHH big rant but as you can tell, this has been on my nerves :):)

:eek: Say What! This is exaclty the reason some nurses don't like to call doctors.

To be honest I would not mind working on a unit where the charge nurse advises you on calling doctors like the one the OP mentioned. I guess this is one of those things that will get easier with experience.:)

Specializes in LTC Rehab Med/Surg.

I always err on the side of caution. Maybe I call more than I should.

Who I'm calling is always a consideration. I do it anyway, I just first put on my bullett proof vest when appropriate.

I heard that a nurse lost her license and is now working for Walmart because she didn't call the Dr for a BP of 200/100. The patient ended up having a stroke and the employer reported her to the BON. So, keep that in mind when considering whether to call a nasty dr or not. When they are rude just go to the supervisor and call the head dr. There is always another dr you can go through.

Specializes in Trauma, ER, ICU, CCU, PACU, GI, Cardiology, OR.

needless to say, i never encountered much of a resistance when i called a doctor in the weee hours regarding a pt.'s condition. in addition, prior to calling dr. so & so i would have all pertinent information and possible suggestions on hand. on the other hand, it could be that i'm 6' tall and a bodybuilder and i don't take no for answer when i'm the advocate to any given patient. on a lighter note, when i was a staff nurse working the night shift and some of my colleagues were intimidated by any given physician, i was the one to volunteer on placing the call. at this level, i recall one "full moon weekend" i had to call the physician on call several occasions and on my last call he said "damn are you the only nurse working tonight?" i reply "no but i'm a damn good nurse". needless to say, this doctor and i became good friends afterwards. lastly, the moral of the story is always be the advocate to your patients don't let anyone stop you from delivering the highest caliber of nursing possible.

Specializes in Med Surg - Renal.
Never on the basis of, "Will someone be mad at me for calling?"

Sure, but it does depend on who the doc is and what the call is for.

I'll page a hospitalist for just about anything. Rolaids, nicotine gum, supplements.. whatever. I give them the situation in a text page and usually just see the order pop up without talking to them.

I have no problem paging outside doctors for serious issues. But in certain cases I'll page outside docs for trivial or stupid items too.

A few weeks ago I had a crazy patient, who was well known to her doctors as being batcrap crazy. If they are going to admit her to my unit, they are just signing up for getting called in the middle of the night when her crazy starts going into overdrive and I don't care what it is for.

Sure enough, I was working a night shift, she went batcrap crazy demanding morphine - and only morphine. She had plenty of other PRN narcs, but refused them.

I paged Dr. Sleepy, who let me know he was unhappy about being called. I let him know that I knew that he knew that the patient he admitted was batcrap crazy, had no business on a med surg floor in the first damn place, and was he going to order the freaking morphine or not.

"2 mg morphine. One time."

*click*

This patient ended up challenging her discharge a couple days later because her husband was "preparing for a holiday" (that was coming up in 2 weeks) and in no way had time to come and get her that day or evening.

Her husband spent over three hours visiting her that evening.

Specializes in OB.

The comfort level with calling docs in the middle of the night is definitely something that develops with experience (and age!). I've now reached the point where I have been known to tell doctors "You really don't want to **** off the night nurse with a telephone." I will also respond to those who give me the "Don't call me again" line with (very sweetly said) "Do you want me to write that as a verbal order Doctor?"

Now, to take it a step further we experienced types need to stand up for our "younger" coworkers when we hear a doc berating them. I recently had exactly this conversation with a doctor who was intimidating a trainee on the unit I worked. I told her that it was appropriate for the new nurse to call her more often than the other nurses, that she should encourage this rather than discourage it for the well being of her patients until such time as the new nurse built up enough experience to know when it was safe to "sit on things" until the a.m. Better for all to err on the side of caution and this is the responsible thing for the inexperienced to do. I approached this with her in the attitude of colleagues, not aggressively and she did noticeably moderate her behavior after that.

Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.

Yep, as a brand new nurse I got intimidated by calling docs in the wee hours of the night. Now that I am an old battle axe, I know I don't get paid to be the doctor's friend, though there are many docs I work with that I genuinely like and count it as icing on the cake.

A few years ago I had a baby act up overnight that the private pediatrician wanted to wait to address til the AM. Neither I nor the family were comfortable with this, so I called her back and got a consult from someone in-house, which she gave me the order for, but also asked to speak to my charge about it because she was mad that I had a) called twice in the middle of the night and b) questioned her judgment. Charge told me that I should've just let it go and not called back. Uh, hell no! My name on the chart, my license on the line? I call when I deem appropriate. Neither my charge nor butthole doctor will feed my hungry children should I lose my job/license for not calling when I should have. I am generally not a person that freaks out over stuff in the middle of the night, because I more or less know what can wait. When I don't think it can wait, I call.

We give a headsup to the residents, and even try to tell the med students...busting my gonads about calling you for important stuff guarantees that from now on out I will call you over every single thing until you realize that, until you busted said gonads, I never called you unless I really thought I needed you. We don't mean it as a threat...just, if we call you, please trust us. We are all experienced nurses on this floor and we know when we need you.

Specializes in FNP, ONP.

If it isn't emergent, I do not want to be called until 8am. I really resent middle of the night calls over inconsequential issues. And when/if you do call me I expect you to know the patient's history, diagnoses, course, medications and lab trends. I don't want to hear "I don't know." If you don't know, find out before you wake me up. thanks.

Decisions to call the MD need to be made on the basis of, "Does the MD need to be aware at this time. Does the patient need interventions that are not ordered? Tests that are not ordered?" And that decision needs to be made by the nurse caring for the patient. (With input from others if necessary, but the decision needs to be made by the nurse caring for the patient.)

Never on the basis of, "Will someone be mad at me for calling?"

So often I hear, "It's Dr. X on call, she's nice, go ahead and call." The only time the identity of the doc on call matters is if it's, "This MD wants to know this immediately, this one would rather hear when they make rounds."

If you're afraid of being yelled at for doing your job, GET OVER IT.

And don't let a coworker talk you out of calling if you feel a call should be made. I've worked on units where you're supposed to get the charge nurse's permission. Those units will throw YOU under the bus along with the charge nurse if things go south. You're the nurse. YOU have the letters after your name. Make the decision. Get input if needed. I'll often have new grads tell me they want to call, and after discussing the situation, we work out that it's "just ..." or something that doesn't actually need a call once we think it through together. But if you think you need to call, it's YOUR patient being cared for under YOUR license, which makes it YOUR decision.

Exactly. I used to ask " should I call for this?" when I was very new because I didn't even know in some instances what could wait or not. esp when working nights. Now I never based the call on is the dr nice or not. I do not care. A rude dr gets the same pages a nice dr gets. Yes sometimes I look at the name on the on call list and dread the shift/paging but oh well. Teaching hospitals are different though. services that have in house coverage on night are different than services that take call from home and get paged accordingly.

Specializes in OB.
If it isn't emergent, I do not want to be called until 8am. I really resent middle of the night calls over inconsequential issues. And when/if you do call me I expect you to know the patient's history, diagnoses, course, medications and lab trends. I don't want to hear "I don't know." If you don't know, find out before you wake me up. thanks.

What you "want" (as far as not being called) is inconsequential if you are the provider on call that night. If the patient has a need that in my judgement should not wait until morning or has a condition such as a "critical lab value" which the facility requires notification of the provider - you WILL be called no matter how much attitude you sling. (I'm not taking the fall for anyone's "preferences")

If you are polite about it I will minimize the disruption, citing relevant facts only, requesting a course of action, checking to see if others need to speak with you before waking you and then letting you return to sleep promptly. Throw attitude around and you will get exactly the response I cited in my prior post and possibly a report to the chain of command.

"If it isn't emergent, I do not want to be called until 8am. I really resent middle of the night calls over inconsequential issues."

Then perhaps you should have been a banker rather than a healthcare provider.

are you serious? s/he said there's no problem with emergent calls. this np is absolutely right that s/he shouldn't be getting middle-of-the-night calls about inconsequential things.

if the patient has a need that in my judgement should not wait until morning or has a condition such as a "critical lab value" which the facility requires notification of the provider - you will be called no matter how much attitude you sling.

right. emergent.

not calling about things that don't need immediate intervention is one of the ways we keep our patients safe. a well-rested doctor or np or pa is a safe provider.

i've worked with mds who yelled about legitimate calls before, and i understand the problem. but i'm finding some of the nurse responses here to be somewhat childish.

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