Bullying - What is it?

[RNdynamic]

A lot of threads discuss whether or not bullying is rampant. I want to give some examples of behaviors and I am interested in people to tell me which one(s) consist of bullying, rude behavior, or social abuse.

(1) A nurse grabbing a sheet from her orientee's hands, stating in a raised voice that "its too sloppy, give it to me" so that she can fold it herself over a patient.

(2) A nurse not letting her orientee go to lunch or cover their orientee's lunch because the orientee had to catch up on documentation, even though the nurse had taken lunch herself.

(3) A nurse loudly commanding their orientee in the nurses station to finish their documentation before doing anything else because they don't want to get out late.

(4) A nurse asking another nurse "why did you needlestick yourself?" after an accidental needlestick that requires the nurse to go to occ health.

(5) A nurse asking another nurse during ICU handoff why they didn't obtain an order to replete their patients potassium of 3.8.

These are real life situations that I have experienced or observed. In my opinion, the majority of them demonstrate the height of rudeness. The last one demonstrates someone suggesting that a nurse didn't follow their patient's labs to replete their normal potassium level to one that was more normal.

[scottaprn]

In an era where nursing is supposed to be about evidence based practice I continue to be amazed by the people who ignore the evidence concerning bullying among nurses.

The data is clear and indisputable that bullying occurs at a higher rate within nursing than other professions. It is also shown that being bullied reduces productivity and increases job turnover. the job turnover creates a huge financial impact to facilities.

As far as the specific examples above I wasnt there so I don't know but if this is the same nurse interacting with the same person it would seem that this probably does rise to the level of bullying. Except for the second one which is most likely illegal as well as bullying.

What the profession of nursing allows due to its unwillingness to open their eyes and look at the data is an embarrassment.

I encourage everyone to look at the evidence before forming an opinion. Does bullying occur in other jobs? absolutely it does. Does nursing bully at a much higher rate than other professions? You better believe it. Does nursing pay a price in the loss of new nurses,drops in productivity and high turnover? The data is clear- absolutely.

Before you make a decision on this issue look at the data. (and I mean peer reviewed journals not a google search that provides no numbers and is based on anecdotal evidence at best and conjecture at its worse.

[RNdynamic]

Have you been a teacher, a pharmacist or a doctor? I don't mean to be rude, I'm legitimately asking as you specifically mentioned them. I've worked in accounting, and been a teacher. Those are my only two areas of expertise, unless you count a short stint waitressing when I was 20....and I can say yes, it happens in those fields as well.

I come from a family of educators and none of them have ever experienced the severity of the behavior I have related to them, they have said. As well, I was a pharmacy tech for a year and did not witness either pharmacists or pharmacy techs behaving in the way I described in the OP. And although I am not a doctor, I see them all of the time and don't witness this sort of behavior.

[RNdynamic]

2) Socially inept behavior....bully? No. Handled better: I am going to go to lunch. You need to finish your documentation first. In nursing it is important that tasks are finished in a timely manner. You can join us when you are done.

In my opinion, a preceptor has no business denying an orientee their lunch break just because the orientee has documentation to catch up on (and could be completed after the break). On orientation, there is really no excuse to be denied a lunch, as I see it. There are two people with one assignment and the work can be completed by either one, even if the orientee should ideally be completing it.

Feeling starved during your shift is not going to make you more productive; it's going to make you less productive due to a lack of energy. I think it may also be against federal law. And I certainly wouldn't want to join anyone for lunch who talked the way someone is speaking in your quotation. They would probably just ruin lunch too.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I don't see doctors, pharmacists, teachers, and other professionals talking to one another in the manner I described above. But I see it in nursing. I also see it in min. wage places like Taco Bell and Burger King, or in hairdressing salons. The quotations I gave resemble how one might talk down to a misbehaving child, in my opinion. I wouldn't dream of grabbing stuff out of people's hands and saying "give me that." I actually see that as physical hostility. It's an invasion of space. Why in nursing do you find this behavior defensible? How come it doesn't pervade in other professions, or at least appear so? Is it because we (you) hold ourselves to a lower standard?

If you haven't seen it with MD's then you haven't worked in a University setting and residents in competitive residencies. Surgical residents are the worst (no offense guys).

It does pervade other professions. You will see it in the corporate world. You see it in real estate. You see it in teaching. You see it in lawyers. You'll see it on wall street. I don't think it is unique to nursing at all. I do however think nurses are very good at talking about it to the 10th degree and giving it a label. Why? Because we are still predominately a female dominated profession and women are very verbal and tend to talk things to death.

I don't think bad behavior and lack of social skills as being a bully. I just don't.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

In my opinion, a preceptor has no business denying an orientee their lunch break just because the orientee has documentation to catch up on (and could be completed after the break). On orientation, there is really no excuse to be denied a lunch, as I see it. There are two people with one assignment and the work can be completed by either one, even if the orientee should ideally be completing it.

Feeling starved during your shift is not going to make you more productive; it's going to make you less productive due to a lack of energy. I think it may also be against federal law. And I certainly wouldn't want to join anyone for lunch who talked the way someone is speaking in your quotation. They would probably just ruin lunch too.

There is nothing offensive in my statement. It is not meant to demean or chastise someone. It is a fact. When you are done come join us....is in no way demeaning. So in your opinion the entire lunch for everyone else should be placed on hold for one person to finish their documentation because their feelings are hurt? Uhmmm...no. If the preceptor denied the entire lunch then the oreintee should be paid for no break and the manager alerted. There is no federal law that states you MUST have a break...it does however state that if your place of business offers a non paid break and you work it you will be paid.

No one is trying to starve the oreintee. They are having to finish their tasks then go to lunch...who is denying them lunch? When that oreintee is on their own they will need to know how to prioritize the tasks and organize their time so that they can become efficient in their daily assignment. In no way see this as bullying.

I said this in another thread. https://allnurses.com/nurse-colleague-patient/sure-get-flamed-935647-page4.html

I think there are a few reasons for this phenomenon. There is an ever increasing pressure on bedside nurses to do more with less. Nurses are feeling anxious and overwhelmed. They are tired and frustrated. We all know that when we are tired and stressed we don't have the amount of patience necessary for every situation. I also think the "everybody" wins mentality is a disservice to the younger generation. The school of hard knock and emotional resiliency are important traits to survive life...which is full of hard knocks and obstacles.

I think that there is an issue with the "everybody wins mentality" because in life everybody doesn't win.

I think that just because information isn't presented the way you want it to be presented doesn't make it bullying.

"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted" Ralph Waldo Emerson

[RNdynamic]

If you haven't seen it with MD's then you haven't worked in a University setting and residents in competitive residencies. Surgical residents are the worst (no offense guys).

It does pervade other professions. You will see it in the corporate world. You see it in real estate. You see it in teaching. You see it in lawyers. You'll see it on wall street. I don't think it is unique to nursing at all. I do however think nurses are very good at talking about it to the 10th degree and giving it a label. Why? Because we are still predominately a female dominated profession and women are very verbal and tend to talk things to death.

I don't think bad behavior and lack of social skills as being a bully. I just don't.

I work in one of the largest teaching hospitals in this country actually.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

If this is happening to one orientee, consistently by the same preceptor, it could very well be bullying. Are these instances also accompanied by eye-rolling, head shaking, and deep sighs of exasperation?

I am literally picturing this person in my head who is dissatisfied with something in her work or life, and is venting pent up anger on an orientee who is most likely to just shut up and put up. And the preceptor knows this! She is targeting all this on one she perceives as unwilling to speak up.

To appease the "we must never call it bullying" crowd, let's just call it grossly unprofessional behavior.

[rn.CB]

I agree with some of the above posts, that isolated and unrelated, its less clear what the context is.

If the list of events are by one nurse with actual (higher up) or perceived authority (seniority among staff nurses) towards another nurse, as with a preceptor/orientee, then it becomes a clearer picture of consistent hostility that is directed at someone in a lower level of power.

When the person's hosile behavior is only directed at the one below them, while other staff are treated more respectfully, then this is targeted aggression to me.

[RNdynamic]

No one is trying to starve the oreintee. They are having to finish their tasks then go to lunch...who is denying them lunch? When that oreintee is on their own they will need to know how to prioritize the tasks and organize their time so that they can become efficient in their daily assignment. In no way see this as bullying.

I said this in another thread. https://allnurses.com/nurse-colleague-patient/sure-get-flamed-935647-page4.html I think that there is an issue with the "everybody wins mentality" because in life everybody doesn't win.

I think that just because information isn't presented the way you want it to be presented doesn't make it bullying.

"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted" Ralph Waldo Emerson

I don't think anyone wants the orientee to starve either. Nevertheless, if the orientee is hungry and there are no urgent matters that need to be taken care of, why shouldn't they eat? Documentation can wait. Additionally, why can't the preceptor who is doing little else but supervising watch for them? Coverage exists to maintain pts while people eat. There are days that I have gone to lunch even though some documentation needed to be finished. I did it when I got back. If I waited until I had nothing to do before going to lunch, I know that I might never be able to go.

You say they an orientee has to finish their tasks before they go to eat. What if they finish them, and new tasks arise -- new orders, a pt deteriorating. These things can't wait so they're stuck even longer. Then the cycle starts again. Documentation can wait. Everyone deserves to go to lunch, and eating is a need. You shouldn't have to get permission to do it any more than you should have to get permission to use the bathroom.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

Only nursing sees food and elimination as something to deny oneself...or, in this case, deny to an orientee. Ridiculous. No one else, not even MDs, fail to eat for 12 hours.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I don't think anyone wants the orientee to starve either. Nevertheless, if the orientee is hungry and there are no urgent matters that need to be taken care of, why shouldn't they eat? Documentation can wait. Additionally, why can't the preceptor who is doing little else but supervising watch for them? Coverage exists to maintain pts while people eat. There are days that I have gone to lunch even though some documentation needed to be finished. I did it when I got back. If I waited until I had nothing to do before going to lunch, I know that I might never be able to go.

You say they an orientee has to finish their tasks before they go to eat. What if they finish them, and new tasks arise -- new orders, a pt deteriorating. These things can't wait Then the cycle starts again. These things can't wait, but documentation can wait. Everyone deserves to go to lunch, and eating is a need. You shouldn't have to get permission to do it any more than you should have to get permission to use the bathroom.

I am very supportive to my oreintees. I don't refuse their lunch nor bathroom breaks.

I don't think your example are examples of bullying.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

The worst bullies I have encountered in several decades of work experience were executives just below the top of the pyramid. Those who delivered results and left behind a mound of broken spirits. Ever been in a lockdown meeting?