Not eligible because I live too close?

Diary/Dairy, RN · Feb 15, 2008

Sounds like a travel assignment - I have had that happen with some hospitals when I was looking for an assignment near home. The hospital had a requirement that the traveler had to live at least 50 miles away. I guess they would rather just hire you if you lived that close.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Feb 16, 2008

Sounds like a travel assignment - I have had that happen with some hospitals when I was looking for an assignment near home. The hospital had a requirement that the traveler had to live at least 50 miles away. I guess they would rather just hire you if you lived that close.

You would think so, wouldn't you? But I cannot get any attention from HR directly! On the other hand, I have just about had to beat off with a stick a hospital 50 miles away who does want to hire me--with a $5,000 sign on bonus. If I thought I could do that and school too, and the house, the husband and the animals, I'd grab it.

But the local hospital, not so much.

Seems so weird to me! Why a hospital would be happy to pay for someone to travel and not for someone local, which would be cheaper.

Personally, my suspicion, now that I think of it, is that the agency won't make as much money off the arrangement unless the nurse is more distant.

Maybe I should call the hospital and use this as a way of getting attention for direct hire, which would be my preference anyway......

Thanks!

suzanne4, RN · Feb 16, 2008

More than likely the agency has a contract with the facility that they will not offer employment to a nurse that lives within a 50 mile radius of the hospital.

And just because the agency sent you a mailer, or an e-mail, does not mean anything to the facility. The agency just buys lists of names from the BON for your state, that is why you received it and you live closer to the facility.

If working at the facility thru an agency, then you are there as a contract employee and not one of their own, so they do not count you as an FTE, or full-time employee and if the census is down, then they do not pay you, and can cancel you just two hours before the shift.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Feb 16, 2008

More than likely the agency has a contract with the facility that they will not offer employment to a nurse that lives within a 50 mile radius of the hospital.
And just because the agency sent you a mailer, or an e-mail, does not mean anything to the facility. The agency just buys lists of names from the BON for your state, that is why you received it and you live closer to the facility.
If working at the facility thru an agency, then you are there as a contract employee and not one of their own, so they do not count you as an FTE, or full-time employee and if the census is down, then they do not pay you, and can cancel you just two hours before the shift.

Since I've been working agency for about a year, I am well familiar with the 2 hour cancel. :wink2: If I am working as a per diem/PRN employee for the hospital, the same thing goes.

I had had communication with the agency and specifically said I wanted to work at that hospital, because I live so close to it.

It still makes no sense that the hospital will hire agency but they must be more than a certain distance away from the hospital, which then costs the hospital soooo much more--when all other criteria (2 hour cancel, not counted as FTE, don't have to pay benes) are the same.

Still looking for a rationale that makes sense...... Anybody working agency had this experience and understands the reasoning? Particularly in a time of whining over tight profit margins?

Thanks,

Christine

nightmare, RN · Feb 16, 2008

Just a thought but maybe the agencies don't hire nurses from within 50 miles so that the hospital can hire nurses for direct care within the 50 miles.It would make sense for the direct care nurses to live nearer the hospital.

RN1989 · Feb 17, 2008

I was told that very thing years ago when I tried to do the same thing. Was told that the hospitals don't like local nurses, particularly if the hospital is crummy - local agency nurse talks to other local nurses, hospital gets bad reputation, etc., area nurses start getting unhappy. Also had to do with not wanting to pay a local nurse such high rates - they felt it would cause issues with the regular staff over the high travel rates as compared to local PRN.

1studentnurse · Feb 17, 2008

Note: It's an IRS regulation (the 50 mile rule) for tax free per diem reimbursement for housing, travel and meal expenses.

Check this out for a start:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p1542/ar01.html

My husband has worked as a traveler in another industry and almost always (not on the last assignment though) gets a GSA per diem based on what area he was working in. This is based on the cost of living in the area and costs for food and lodging.

If you can get the per diem, that's basically like another bonus. The trick is living cheaply as you can. My husband did this in San Francisco by staying in a long-term residence with a buddy and they shared the apartment and the car. It was a lot cheaper than a hotel. Some folks in his industry have mobile homes, so they can collect their per diem and live at an RV park.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 17, 2008

Since I've been working agency for about a year, I am well familiar with the 2 hour cancel. :wink2: If I am working as a per diem/PRN employee for the hospital, the same thing goes.
I had had communication with the agency and specifically said I wanted to work at that hospital, because I live so close to it.
It still makes no sense that the hospital will hire agency but they must be more than a certain distance away from the hospital, which then costs the hospital soooo much more--when all other criteria (2 hour cancel, not counted as FTE, don't have to pay benes) are the same.
Still looking for a rationale that makes sense...... Anybody working agency had this experience and understands the reasoning? Particularly in a time of whining over tight profit margins?
Thanks,
Christine

I have had this experience many times, that is why I posted this to you. The hospital essentially signs almost a non-compete clause for nurses that live in their area. They figure that any that live within that distance can easily commute to them. And just because an agency sent you a mailing does not mean that they have any assignments available there now, or they may have them in an area that you do not have experience in such as the OR or Labor and Delivery, etc. They figure that most in the area can hire directly if they have a need, and those that live further away may not consider them for any type of work. Have seen this type of marketing for years and years, and have worked agency most of my career so have seen just about everything. The facility may not have any needs in the area that you can work and have experience in.

You did not get the e-mail because you spoke to the facility, but just that you are a nurse in a certain area, and I am sure that the agency sent out something to everyone within probably a 100 mile area not knowing which ones that are in the non-hire area for them.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Feb 18, 2008

Note: It's an IRS regulation (the 50 mile rule) for tax free per diem reimbursement for housing, travel and meal expenses.
Check this out for a start:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p1542/ar01.html
My husband has worked as a traveler in another industry and almost always (not on the last assignment though) gets a GSA per diem based on what area he was working in. This is based on the cost of living in the area and costs for food and lodging.
If you can get the per diem, that's basically like another bonus. The trick is living cheaply as you can. My husband did this in San Francisco by staying in a long-term residence with a buddy and they shared the apartment and the car. It was a lot cheaper than a hotel. Some folks in his industry have mobile homes, so they can collect their per diem and live at an RV park.

I think the IRS doesn't care where I live.

They certainly do have rules about how far away you must live in order to collect per diem (housing, etc.), but that is not really what I am trying to understand.

I don't want the per diem, don't need the housing. I want to work. I can work for the same rate close by as I could if I lived 50 or more miles away, cheaper for the hospital because they don't have to pay per diem.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Feb 18, 2008

I have had this experience many times, that is why I posted this to you. The hospital essentially signs almost a non-compete clause for nurses that live in their area. They figure that any that live within that distance can easily commute to them. And just because an agency sent you a mailing does not mean that they have any assignments available there now, or they may have them in an area that you do not have experience in such as the OR or Labor and Delivery, etc. They figure that most in the area can hire directly if they have a need, and those that live further away may not consider them for any type of work. Have seen this type of marketing for years and years, and have worked agency most of my career so have seen just about everything. The facility may not have any needs in the area that you can work and have experience in.
You did not get the e-mail because you spoke to the facility, but just that you are a nurse in a certain area, and I am sure that the agency sent out something to everyone within probably a 100 mile area not knowing which ones that are in the non-hire area for them.

The agency specified they did have med surg slots in this specific hospital.

They apparently took my name from monster.com, since the BON doesn't have my email address and I was contacted via email. Not sure how an agency would know who was within 100 miles or whatever, based on email addresses--I've gotten nothing from anyone by snail mail.

I am certain in fact that there is no relationship whatever between my having attempted to work for the same facility, and being contacted by the agency.

I understand what you are saying, Suzanne, it's just that it isn't responsive to my specific questions or concerns, and draws info in that doesn't have to do with me, except that this is the first I've seen of a "noncompete clause," but you'd think that if they were wanting someone per diem, they'd look in their own neighborhood. Cheaper, more convenient, closer in. The one argument that does make sense is the possibility that they have morale issues and don't want a local nurse coming in and bad mouthing, but I have seen agency nurses do this as well, so I'm not sure about that either.

I think maybe I'll just call the hospital tomorrow and see if they are interested in me for per diem. If the agency has a slot in med surg for that hospital for which I have already been qualified, then I bet the hospital won't mind considering me for the same slot, and saving some moolah. Maybe I can get some specifics if I ask the administration. It will probably burn me for a job at the hospital, but hey, I can't get their attention anyway, so it seems nothing is lost.

I'm sorry we didn't have a meeting of the minds, Suzanne, but I do appreciate your posts.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 18, 2008

It has nothing to do with the IRS at all, but what the contract stipulates that the agency has signed with the facility. And nothing to do with you either, but strictly what is in the contract.

And again, just because you got a mailer from the agency, it does not mean that they have any openings in the dept that you have experience in at the moment at that specific hospital. The agency is only following what their contract requires them to do.

If you do follow up with the agency, you may wish to find out if they are even staffing for the unit that you are interested in, you will more than likely find out that they are not, and that is also why you were unable to get a job with the facility directly at this time.

IRS only limits per diem rates and housing stipends if you live less than 50 miles from the facility, they have nothing to do with who is hired and who is not. Hospitals can put any rules into play that they wish, they are the decision maker on this, and not the government.

I do not know any more specifics than what you have posted and have seen this happen over and over again thru the years and in many states, it is definitely not specific to this one facility, or one state, or one city.