No AED in infusion clinic

brownbook · Aug 21, 2019

Did you Google "State Laws on Cardiac Arrest and Defibrillators, ncsl.org/research/health/law". It seemed to cover the topic well.

JKL33 · Aug 22, 2019

I would be worried about administering substances for which the FDA says there is no medical use and injecting people with natural calming potions under the direction of a chiropractor and a non-existent M.D.

Tron8622 · Aug 22, 2019

WOW your only armed w/ a cardiac thump . You basically confirmed my fears of doing the same job I got an offer from where I live . Im for sure not taking it . But yeah just call up a nurse attorney they work close with the board and they can tell you asap

brownbook · Aug 22, 2019

16 hours ago, JKL33 said:
I would be worried about administering substances for which the FDA says there is no medical use and injecting people with natural calming potions under the direction of a chiropractor and a non-existent M.D.

I like your response better. There have been a few, too many, posts about infusion clinics. Makes me want to take an unnatural calming substance. Is beer unnatural?

ruby_jane, BSN, RN · Aug 27, 2019

In your state are you legally able to take orders from a chiropractor?

Besides all that -

You've identified a real area of risk. You happen to be ACLS trained but most of your folk will not be. I would advocate for a policy that covered exactly what to do (whether you are there or not).

In a freestanding clinic the only thing you can do is call EMS - but that AED would buy you some time and circulation, no? You don't need licensure to use the AED.

GrumpyRN, NP · Sep 1, 2019

On 8/20/2019 at 2:54 PM, Tllrn said:
On 8/20/2019 at 2:54 PM, Tllrn said:
I have been working at an IV vitamin infusion clinic and wellness center since June just so I can contribute to our bills. At this clinic we provide hormone therapy, IV vitamin infusions, IV ozone therapy, and the Clinical Director (who is a chiropractor) runs it. We have an MD who is our medical director, but he is only around on Saturdays if at all...
...We see cancer patients who are undergoing chemo elsewhere, but we obviously have patients on testosterone as well. I have had 2 instances in which I gave patients (with a standing order) an injection that is supposed to be calming in a more natural way. They both immediately turned white and gasped and almost lost consciousness.
I was told by my office manager that we don’t have an AED because what we give isn’t “dangerous”.

You are doing nothing medical in this "clinic." I would be more concerned that you are taking money from people under false pretences. Every part of the above paragraph screams alternative medicine and conning people who are desperate. I'll bet you do homeopathy as well.

Your attendees (I am not going to call them patients) are at the same risk as they are while shopping or walking in the street. If anything happens use bystander CPR and call 999 or 911 or whatever.

I could be really cheeky and ask if you are performing all this nonsense why would you use something as scientific as an AED? But I won't.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Sep 2, 2019

On 9/1/2019 at 5:31 AM, GrumpyRN said:
Your attendees (I am not going to call them patients) are at the same risk as they are while shopping or walking in the street. If anything happens use bystander CPR and call 999 or 911 or whatever.

I disagree that the customers of this business are at the same risk as they are while shopping or walking down the street. They are after all, receiving intravenous agents that could easily cause an allergic if not an anaphylactic reaction in the worst case scenario.

On 8/20/2019 at 6:54 AM, Tllrn said:
I am a registered nurse and have been for 5 years. I am actually in the process of getting a Masters in Web Application Development and am just in a holding pattern until I can get an internship in that field (about a year from now). I have been working at an IV vitamin infusion clinic and wellness center since June just so I can contribute to our bills. At this clinic we provide hormone therapy, IV vitamin infusions, IV ozone therapy, and the Clinical Director (who is a chiropractor) runs it. We have an MD who is our medical director, but he is only around on Saturdays if at all. I found out yesterday that we do not have an AED on site and no one knows which nearby business does. We see cancer patients who are undergoing chemo elsewhere, but we obviously have patients on testosterone as well. I have had 2 instances in which I gave patients (with a standing order) an injection that is supposed to be calming in a more natural way. They both immediately turned white and gasped and almost lost consciousness. I am ACLS certified and would know how to respond to an emergency situation, but I feel like I have little to no resources for just such an emergency. I was told by my office manager that we don’t have an AED because what we give isn’t “dangerous”. I’ve been trying to look into the various laws etc. for places like this, but I’m not coming up with anything. All I know is that I feel uncomfortable and I’m just trying to get through this last year of nursing without any major occurrences. Does anyone have any insight on this? I’m so shaken by all of this that I’m dreading even stepping foot into the clinic again.

I do agree with the previous poster in saying that it's quite a moot point to bother with scientific-based emergency protocols in your case given that this "clinic" isn't operating under sound scientific-based evidence in the first place. Sure, infusion clinics with TJC accreditation or state licenses have those protocols but they also operate within FDA guidelines in medication use.

There are no laws surrounding the practice you work under. They are widely unregulated. The physicians who serve as medical directors are practicing medicine precariously in these situations. So are RN's who follow the orders from these physicians and continue to work there. Recently, only the US Federal Trade Commission have taken notice - mainly from the fact that these business advertise a scientifically unfounded claim for a treatment and are fooling the public.

By the way, AED laws vary by state: https://www.aedbrands.com/resource-center/choose/aed-state-laws/

GrumpyRN, NP · Sep 3, 2019

17 hours ago, juan de la cruz said:
I disagree that the customers of this business are at the same risk as they are while shopping or walking down the street. They are after all, receiving intravenous agents that could easily cause an allergic if not an anaphylactic reaction in the worst case scenario.

I can do no more than quote the OP; "I was told by my office manager that we don’t have an AED because what we give isn’t “dangerous”".

ETA; but I do take your point.