NCBON Education & Practice Committee Meeting on April 14th

elkpark · Apr 10, 2005

Not all of us disagree with what the BON is doing -- I think it's a good idea.

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Apr 10, 2005

Not all of us disagree with what the BON is doing -- I think it's a good idea.

You are welcome to your opinion. Just know that the effects upon the small ADN and LPN programs across the state (especially in poorer regions in the east and west) will be disastrous. We will close down. Many people in this area who are unemployed or underemployed (not much job opportunities here) will lose the opportunity to become a nurse, one of the few viable job options still available. Area facilities will suffer without our graduates. In fact the hospitals and other facilities in this area are hiring nurse from overseas in droves while hardworking local people are beating our doors down trying to get into our program (365 applicants last year for 42 slots).

elkpark · Apr 10, 2005

I live in a rural, economically depressed part of the state, and have been full-time faculty in the small ADN program in my area. I am well aware of the issues you mention -- I still think there is value in upgrading the standards for nursing programs. Back when I was ADN faculty and active in the state ADN faculty group (several years ago), there was quite a bit of talk about how we had too many ADN programs in the state (based on our population, compared to other states -- for instance, four times as many programs as SC, and we certainly don't have four times the population!) and many of them were of, shall we say, somewhat dubious quality -- there was open discussion then of what programs would/should be shut down, and instead, several more have been opened since then.

I realize that the negative impact on your community of your program shutting down would be significant, as it would be in my area (and I realize you don't want to lose your job). But the reality is (IMHO) that not every community has the panoply of resources necessary to support a strong nursing program that provides a quality education to its students. I believe that raising the standards for nursing faculty and nursing programs in the state can only benefit (in the long run, in the larger sense) the public -- and that is who the BON serves.

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Apr 10, 2005

I live in a rural, economically depressed part of the state, and have been full-time faculty in the small ADN program in my area. I am well aware of the issues you mention -- I still think there is value in upgrading the standards for nursing programs. Back when I was ADN faculty and active in the state ADN faculty group (several years ago), there was quite a bit of talk about how we had too many ADN programs in the state (based on our population, compared to other states -- for instance, four times as many programs as SC, and we certainly don't have four times the population!) and many of them were of, shall we say, somewhat dubious quality -- there was open discussion then of what programs would/should be shut down, and instead, several more have been opened since then.
I realize that the negative impact on your community of your program shutting down would be significant, as it would be in my area (and I realize you don't want to lose your job). But the reality is (IMHO) that not every community has the panoply of resources necessary to support a strong nursing program that provides a quality education to its students. I believe that raising the standards for nursing faculty and nursing programs in the state can only benefit (in the long run, in the larger sense) the public -- and that is who the BON serves.

The implications in your post are troubling as our program is of very high quality. Our passage rates on the NCLEX are much better than many BSN programs across the state. I do understand where you're coming from, but these "higher standards" will emphatically not ensure better health care in the state. Tragically, just the opposite will occur, which will result in an enormous public outcry. As a matter of fact, the North Carolina Association of Community College Presidents has unanimously condemned these education proposals as being unnecessary and irresponsible: https://allnurses.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1062562&postcount=23

If these unfundated mandates are enacted, many nursing programs across the state will close and the health care of thousands will be in imminent danger due to lack of nurses. This is a undeniable fact, regardless of which side of the "pro-BSN entry level" fence you are on.

elkpark · Apr 10, 2005

I did not mean to imply anything negative about the quality of your program specifically, or that I think it should be shut down -- I mentioned recognizing the impact that would have on your community only because you had said previously that, if the changes are made, your program will shut down. I apologize if my post sounded otherwise.

I'm not surprised that the NCACCP is opposed to the proposals -- they are looking out for their colleges, and the changes will cost them money or (nursing) programs, neither of which they want to give up. That doesn't mean that they necessarily know what's best for nursing in NC -- my college president, when I was teaching, clearly didn't have the foggiest clue about anything having to do with nursing, or the state of healthcare in NC. (But he sure did understand when something was a threat to the status quo of the college ...)

Well, as you noted, we are both entitled to our opinions ... :)

RNPATL, DNP, RN · Apr 11, 2005

I think there is a nice way to strike a proper balance. I am sure every nurse on this forum agrees that nursing standards need to be elevated in order to turn out a graduate that can safely and competently practice nursing. I do believe, as many others, that the proposals by this BON are far too broad and have the potential to impact good, quality nursing programs on the LPN and ADN level in a very negative way.

Joy - do you have any further information on the results of the comments to the draft? Are the draft rules going to be changed? I have not seen anything on this for a while and am wondering if all the opposition really had the ability to make the BON rethink their position on these changes?

Aneroo, LPN · Apr 11, 2005

This is so troubling to me. Is there anyway to find out if items from the draft 2 were changed? I did not see anything about the ADN vs BSN status that there was in the draft 2 changes. I will recheck, maybe I missed it. -Andrea

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Apr 15, 2005

This is a report I have just received: The Committee voted to send to the Board its recommendations including:

- all programs be nationally accredited by Jan 1, 2015

- all faculty have master's degrees by Jan 1, 2015 (Vote 4-3)

- all faculty have the requirements for adult teaching & learning

principles, etc, as written in 3rd draft

- NCLEX pass rate be a 3 year average based on licensure level (not

program type) and the standard is 95% of the national pass

rate for licensure level.

This is very bad news for our little school of nursing (especially the first two recommendations). The crucial battle will be with the overall Board vote on these measures in May. It is critical to have more of us present and to speak at this meeting.

I will let everyone know of the date and time when this information becomes available to me.

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Apr 20, 2005

The Board will vote on these measures on May 17th. As to the specifics (time, etc.), I don't yet have that information. http://www.ncbon.com/forms/ProposedTimeline.pdf

As many of us as possible need to be there.