More than 5 sick days taken in a year and disciplinary action ensues

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

The other day at work the manager was explaining to someone that once someone has been sick 5 days in one year, they will be counseled.

Now, I'm very healthy and rarely call in sick, but some others have legitimate health problems. It sounds discriminatory. She said that this is even with a doctor's note. It also seems to be an infection control issue, since truly sick people will come to work while sick, thus endangering patients.

This is a for profit hospital. There is a union contract giving people sick pay, I'm not sure the details. And, yes, there are nurses who abuse sick time, this is a reality. Yet, limiting it to 5 days when probably people are building up more sick time than that seems unfair.

I was also told in orientation that if you are to miss more than 2 days in a row of scheduled shifts, you must apply for a leave of absence. That, also, seems rather harsh.

[oregonchinamom]

This is a very common policy but most state 5 occurances, not days. In other words, one you call in sick, that is one occurance no matter how many consecutive days you are ill.

Applying for leave when you miss a 3rd shift is also fairly common. It sometimes has to do with the contract the hospital has with their insurance carrier and sometimes just to discourage people from calling in sick.

People with legitimate, chronic health issues have the protection of intermittant leave. When they apply and are approved, if they miss work for the covered chronic illness, it cannot be counted as an unexcused absence. I have seen this protection really help people and I have seen it abused, like many human resource policies.

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

Interesting. Thanks for the response.

[gentlegiver, ASN, LPN, RN]

So, Why offer sick pay if you really don't want it to be used (legitamitly)? I called out sick 3 days in a 1 year period, during that year I worked alot of pick-up shifts. Yup, you guessed it, I was written up for being sick the third time.

[leslie :-D]

i don't understand it either, gentle.

my husband's benefits include 12 sick days but will get reprimanded after the 3rd.

and they lose any ununsed sick days at the end of the fiscal year.

don't understand how this works.

leslie

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

It sounds like this policy is a ploy to get out of paying benefits due.

[Pepperlady]

What does the union say?? If they pay sick benefits there may be other language in the contract that pertains to sick leave.

We are also union (albeit at a public facility in Canada) and if we are going to be sick for a third day the management MAY ask for a doctors note, but doesn't necessarily.

Now, where I get annoyed with staff abusing sick time is when they use it because they are mentally exhausted because they made the decision to put their dog down (truely happened) or other such nonsense.

If we are on vacation and get sick our sick time is reimbursed if there is a legitimate note from a doctor.

Our sick time accrues year to year so potentially, as of today, I could be off for over 300 work hours and still be paid for it.

Interesting how it works at your public facilities

[Nurse_Hagatha]

Now, where I get annoyed with staff abusing sick time is when they use it because they are mentally exhausted because they made the decision to put their dog down (truely happened) or other such nonsense.

I'm not a sick time abuser, but I would totally call in sick if I had to put my dog down and not feel the least bit sorry or guilty for it! I wouldn't admit to my employer that was the reason, but I will be very sad the day I have to say good-bye to my dog.

[Pepperlady]

I was not implying that you would not be very sad to put a dog down, I too have one ... but to plan to put your dog down over your work days as opposed to using your time off days, is, IMHO an abuse of the sick leave.

[truern]

This is a very common policy but most state 5 occurances, not days. In other words, one you call in sick, that is one occurance no matter how many consecutive days you are ill.

Applying for leave when you miss a 3rd shift is also fairly common. It sometimes has to do with the contract the hospital has with their insurance carrier and sometimes just to discourage people from calling in sick.

People with legitimate, chronic health issues have the protection of intermittant leave. When they apply and are approved, if they miss work for the covered chronic illness, it cannot be counted as an unexcused absence. I have seen this protection really help people and I have seen it abused, like many human resource policies.

This sounds like my hospital's policy minus the part about missing a 3rd shift.

However, we have an option of working an extra shift to cancel out an absence. Actually "option" probably doesn't describe it....they practically force you to work the extra shift.

Seriously, if you're out sick why should you be punished above and beyond the occurance?

[northRN]

I'm very happy with the way our sick time works ... you can accumulate up to 900 hours. These hours sit in your "bank" and can be used when you are sick or off on extended sick leave. This summer I had the unfortunate experience of detaching a retina and was off for six weeks. My sick time paid me full wages the entire time. Of course there are those people who will always abuse any benefit. Just because you accumulate the sick time does not mean you 'have' to take it. The problem is , of course, that there is no incentive to NOT use it. I think if my employer gave some sort of bonus or percentage of your sick bank back to you in time off or money, it may be incentive enough to stop some of the abuse.

[llg, PhD, RN]

So, Why offer sick pay if you really don't want it to be used (legitamitly)? I called out sick 3 days in a 1 year period, during that year I worked alot of pick-up shifts. Yup, you guessed it, I was written up for being sick the third time.

In most hospitals that have this type of policy, you CAN use it with no penalty if you have a serious continuous illness (such as a heart attack or a broken leg) and/or you have a documented chronic condition, qualify under the Family and Medical Leave Act, and fill out all the paperwork. Those "ifs" cover most people who have worked for a given institution who have legitmate reason to be missing a lot of work.

The people those "ifs" don't cover are those that simply call out frequently for a bunch of unrelated reasons. While that group includes some people who are legitimately ill and "innocent" of doing anything wrong, it also includes the slackers and the unreliable employees who call in for piddly, unnecessary reasons. That last group are the ones who have ruined it for the rest of us.

And from an employer's point of view ... people who call in frequently are not good employees. Period. Most employers want to be reasonable to those who have good reasons for calling in and there are laws that protect a large percentage of employees, but if you can't be depended upon to show up for work, you have to realize that your employer is not going to like it. They will punish you in some way if they can.

Finally, in most places, "unscheduled" sick time is not the same type of benefit as "scheduled" vacation time -- not the same in a lot of ways.