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®Nurse, MSN, RN 15,428 Views

Joined: Feb 26, '08; Posts: 1,141 (63% Liked) ; Likes: 2,962

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  • Feb 24

    Quote from Murse901
    I am not a CNL, but three of my good friends completed CNL programs after I suggested that they do that instead of a second Bachelor's. After four years as a staff nurse, one just recently secured a position as a "Patient Care Coordinator" (equivalent to an Assistant Nurse Manager in most hospitals). The other two, after three years, are still staff nurses.

    The thing with the CNL degree -- or any direct-entry MSN -- is that you're still a baby nurse when you graduate. There is only one CNL program in my area, and the graduates have a bad reputation because many -- not all, but many -- come out of school expecting to go straight into a nurse leadership position. Not gonna happen.

    The other half of this problem is that you have people who have zero clinical experience attempting to write papers and give presentations on topics that they have no meaningful experience with. As a direct-entry option, the CNL is just poorly implemented.

    My three CNL friends are excellent bedside nurses. However, I don't think that the CNL portion of their program really prepared them to be leaders any more than any other direct-entry MSN program would have.

    If you already have a Bachelor's degree, I would definitely check into a direct-entry MSN of any kind. However, just be realistic -- as you seem to be -- about career expectations.

    If you do not already have a BSN, I would go for the cheapest and fastest option that will get you into a CNM program.

    But not all CNLs are direct entry. My hospital utilizes CNLs and won't consider a nurse with less than 2 years experience. most are nurses with over 10 years experience.

    In my hospital, CNLs have resposibility over a certain number of pt beds. Pt satisfaction scores, etc are all part of what their eval is about. The degree plan isn't actually designed to get them into a leadership position like nurse manager or assistant nurse manAger.

    I agree with you, though, that direct entry CNL is not wisely implemented

  • Feb 24

    The thing with the CNL degree -- or any direct-entry MSN -- is that you're still a baby nurse when you graduate.

    I have a question that I would truly like for it to be answered. If you're a baby nurse with an msn, what are you with an asn/adn, or bsn? Are you a fetus or also a baby nurse? Because I mean, they also have to do clinicals and internships too. What is the reason you called cnl and other DE people baby nurses, but didn't include the lower degrees in that? Curious to know....

  • Sep 19 '17

    Quote from DizzyJon
    Finally, a good point. I'm shocked people don't make this point more often. Although, I personally don't think we (PA/NP doctorate holders) should introduce ourselves as Dr. So and So, I think this point you are making is a good argument and I can't dispute what you are saying.

    If I go to the dentist then I expect the doctor I see to be a dentist. If I go to the chiro I expect that doctor to be a chiro. Going to psych well....that can be a bit more tricky as I know there are LMFT, LISW, LPC, psychologists, etc. Now if going to a hospital does the public really understand their OMFS, podiatrist, DDS is not a medical doctor? Most people don't even know there are two different types of physicians. So, probably not. Would we add to the confusion when there is already a variety of doctors in a hospital setting? I think only when the patient is unhappy or feels they were treated poorly would they even care the provider introduced themselves as doctor instead of PA/NP.
    I'll chime in here with my opinion since I'm currently killing myself to obtain my doctorate and in student loan debt more than the cost of a mortgage.

    I have a visceral response to any other healthcare professional who takes the stance that after I've finally earned my doctorate I am not allowed to use it unless I decide to teach. Especially considering my degree is not a PhD designed for research and teaching but a clincal DNP whose whole focus is to train me to be capable to the fullest capacity in the practice of anesthesia. While my degree does include some leadership and a little teaching it certainly isn't the focus of the degree, so why can I not use my title unless I go into an area my degree didn't even specifically train me for?

    The valid point was already made that there are numerous other healthcare professionals who are allowed to use their degree title so I won't repeat that.

    On to the tired point that using your title in the hospital can be confusing for patients. I would argue that there are an infinite number of things that are confusing for patients in the hospital and this one thing seems ridiculous to harp over. I personally think that using your title and saying your specialty is the best method for everyone in healthcare. I'm Dr. Smith your rheumatologist; I'm Dr. Jones your physical therapist; I'm Dr. Harris your endocrinologist; I'm Dr. Moore your CRNA, etc. No healthcare professional should just be walking into a room and saying I'm Dr. Jones and just start doing things on the patient, you should also say what your specialty or career is. Patients see so many healthcare professionals in the hospital and everyone should use a couple words to be specific.

    Physicians like to argue that we (nurses) specificially should be outlawed from using our title (of course they don't care about anyone else doing it) because we will try to trick the patient into thinking we're a physician. Not sure if they realize how childishly narcisistic they come off with that statement. I have to say that after I get done performing the best anesthetic a patient has ever had, experiencing a smooth wake up, no pain or nausea and quick recovery I want them to know I (a CRNA) did it. Why would I want an anesthesiologist stealing my credit?

    Some others who are achieving their doctorate just take a passivist approach to it. They don't want to deal with the arguement or snide words from physicians. Many will say, why fight it, just submit to the overlords of healthcare and hide your degree or achievement, what does it matter. Why it matters is not to try to elevate yourself with a title or stroke an ego, it's the best public relations move you can do as a nurse. The public in general has very little info on advanced practice roles. There are others in healthcare who tirelessly bash the roles and spend money on advertising and fear mongering that APRNs are uneducated and dangerous. They imply we are just nurses who got tired of checking temps and passing aspirin so they did a couple months of easy online work and now are trying to parade as educated healthcare professionals. When you introduce yourself as Dr. Jones your CRNA they may not know much about CRNAs but they do know that a doctorate means this person has invested a lot of time and money to obtain a terminal degree. It symbolizes that you are highly educated and take your career seriously. It symbolizes that this anesthesia you're about to perform for them was important enough that you dedicated years of time learning the skill. Ultimately they will trust and respect you, feeling more confident placing their life in your hands.

    That is what it's all about, building a relationship with the patient built on trust and confidence. They may have heard all kinds of negative things about NPs or CRNAs but when they hear doctorate they at least know you're educated and invested in your training, they are in good hands (also one of the reasons physicians hate the idea). #micdrop

  • Jun 11 '16

    Quote from Boomer MS, RN
    Really? Yahoo!!! Way to go, girl.

    Really! I now consider myself an academic badass.

  • Jun 2 '16

    Quote from Been there,done that
    Wherefore art thee Mods?
    Right here. Sorry, was descaling the coffee pot.

    Closing for staff review.

  • May 28 '16

    image-jpegYea no venom detected. Test results do show elevated levels of butt hurt.

  • May 20 '16

    There seem to be a lot of similar threads lately.
    Maybe there should be a sub-forum for nurses who have a situation that makes them sound like a drug abuser, but they are really innocent.

  • May 17 '16

    Quote from Jensmom7

    More important, where in the world did she find 15 extra pillows? I've been in places that didn't have that many extra pillows for the entire facility, much less one unit!!
    This was the ONLY question I could think of when I read this. What hospital is this, and will they share their pillows??!??!

  • May 13 '16

    Quote from ®Nurse
    Eating is a hobby...
    Eating bacon is an even better hobby.

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  • May 12 '16

    Quote from ®Nurse
    I just stumbled across this post and thought to myself; "I would copy that sign, 'X' out the reference to 'Physicians', and insert the word 'Nurses'. I would then paste on every employee bathroom in the facility, just to make a point. (.....and I would include a tag line that says "Nurses need safe-havens too".
    Our old "safe haven" area was in back of the nurses' station. There was a table, 2 chairs, a microwave and a toaster oven.
    Also, a bathroom.
    I don't know how many times docs would go in there, while we were eating, and pee like a racehorse. Or worse.
    I started telling them, "We heard you, ya know.."
    THEY had the nerve to complain about me.
    I had to talk to the Chief Resident about this. So, we went back and sat in the "safe haven." As soon as he sat down with me, I had one of my nurse friends (male) come in and pee in the bathroom while we were talking.
    Chief got the hint, and they stopped using our bathroom.

  • May 11 '16

    My employer is having a breakfast party one day, a lunch party another, and manicures another. They are being held in the administrative buildings, so no staff nurses will have time to leave the floor and get over there and back since its a pretty good walk to get there. And they seem to have forgotten we are not allowed to wear NAIL POLISH. So like last year, we will see all the pictures on the intranet of the management enjoying the parties without us.

  • May 1 '16

    It's illegal to hire an obese nurse in Illinois. Don't take the risk

  • May 1 '16

    Yes. You have to have a BMI of 20 for women and 22 for men. Studies show critical thinking and task performance are directly related to weight. I personally refuse care from a nurse who is overweight, as he/she cannot possibly care for me safely.

  • Apr 30 '16

    Quote from milesims
    I never said to not provide them with educational feedback. I completely agree with you on this point and am glad you are providing them with positive reinforcement. Educating them is certainly not negative. What I'm saying is to not use discipline as your main tool if you want your students to respect you and to motivate them.

    I have to somewhat agree and disagree with motivating students as being part of your job. Although it most likely isn't in your job description, it would make a world of difference to a student if you were to apply this in your teaching. You're doing the students a favor, it really doesn't take any effort, and you could make great nurses out of them.

    Isn't it better to provide a few encouragements and motivate a student, than have these same students most likely obtain the degree and take out their lack of motivation out on their patients? It's not that hard to pass without motivation, believe me. I know plenty of people who loathe nursing and get the best grades in the entire class.

    And to answer you on how the instructor is supposed to compliment them when they're doing nothing, you have to compliment them when they're doing SOMETHING. This will make them more likely to do SOMETHING. You can say something like, "Good job on finishing all of those vitals early," "Good job on cleaning up the unit when you have nothing to do," or "I really like how you sit down and talk with patients." Now tell me, when you were in nursing school and if an instructor were to tell you these things, what is the likelihood you would do it again? For me, it's 100%.

    I'm not one to judge, and I wouldn't blame you if you have any resentment against nursing students. Most of us just "don't get it." But I'm sure that you were in the same situation in nursing school as well, and I really hope you find the patience and the time to take my advice, even though it's coming from a nursing student.
    I am not only a Clinical Instructor, but a New Grad preceptor and Charge Nurse in an acute care hospital. Expecting compliments for doing what is expected and meeting the minimum expectations (like taking vitals in a timely manner) is not only unrealistic, but is setting up the future nurse for disappointments and unrealistic expectations that they will be cheered and championed once they are working for doing their job, for doing what is expected and they signed up for, for being a nurse!

    Yes, students (and coworkers/support staff) need encouragement and compliments, especially when they are earned, but not because you think you deserve them, and certainly not to get you to do what is within your job description. My students have a job description, it's called the class syllabus and my written outline of expectations provided to them during orientation on the first day of class. I regularly pass out "good job's", elbow bumps, verbal compliments, and pre/post con shout outs of praise when they are earned.

    As to "being in the same situation in nursing school" in regards to "just not getting it", you couldn't be further from the truth. I did get it. I understood that I was paying a lot of $$ for my education, and that competition for a place in nursing programs was fierce, and competition for good New Grad programs was even fiercer! My favorite Clinical Instructor made me cry more times than I care to admit, because she had high expectations of me, and required I fulfilled them in every class. And when I exceeded those expectations, she would pass out praise and compliments, because they were earned.

    Many students come into my class (at orientation anyway) thinking that Clinical rotations are supposed to be easy, and we should take it easy on them because they have a test/quiz/paper due in their theory class, or worked the night before, or stayed out late. Sorry, not my problem. My job is to teach you to be a nurse, who's #1 priority is patient safety, and you won't learn that by me shaking my pompoms for you.

  • Apr 25 '16

    Touro University Nevada has an online DNP program specifically for nurse academic educators.