LPN= MDS?

Specialties MDS

Published

Specializes in LTF, ALF, Primary & Rhuematology offices.

are lpn's able to do MDS i wanted to get involved in that but i was sure if the cost of the class and certi. were going to have any real pay of for me since i am a lpn and i know that rn's are the ones that i see in the majority of ads

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Hi.

YES--

  • LPN's, as well as other "qualified" staff may, can, and DO complete portions of the MDS.
  • LPN's may be, can be, and ARE "certified" as competent in the RAI process.

On the "flip" side--

  • Only a registered nurse may sign at R2b--indicating that he/she "coordinated" the assessment process--per the RAI Manual.
  • In most states only a registered nurse may analyze/synthesize information, identify/clarify/combine/"diagnose" a resident problem per scope of practice regulations.
  • In most states these scope of practice regulations also require the registered nurse to formulate (with other professionals, caregivers and resident) the initial plan of care--approaches and goals.

In reality--With experience, many LPN's ARE capable and reliable facility MDS/PPS coordinators.

Facilities approach/overlook and address/ignore professional issues in many ways--some good, some bad.

Do some more reading on this listserv. Talk to persons in local facilities who are MDS/PPS coordinators--then decide.

Good luck!

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Specializes in Vascular Access Nurse.

I'm an LPN and I do everything except sign R2B....including writing all of the nursing care plans. However, it's a lot of responsibility and i recommend having an RN and an LPN work together if your facility is large enough to support 2 people in the RNAC office.

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Specializes in LTF, ALF, Primary & Rhuematology offices.

thanks for your insight both of you!!

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Specializes in LTC, sub-acute, MDS.

I find it hard to believe that no one ever questions why the R2B signature is even relevant. :bugeyes:

  • "Coordinating" anything does not require an RN license
  • "Completion" of the document is determined by the software; do you need an RN to see if all the items are complete????

VB2 and VB4 are to be signed by an RN, as it is a well known fact that we LPNs are surely not capable :lol2: of participating in assessment, critical thinking, or any kind of postive outcome for our residents. Sometimes, I wonder why they even pay me!! ;)

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Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.
I find it hard to believe that no one ever questions why the R2B signature is even relevant. :bugeyes:

  • "Coordinating" anything does not require an RN license
  • "Completion" of the document is determined by the software; do you need an RN to see if all the items are complete????

VB2 and VB4 are to be signed by an RN, as it is a well known fact that we LPNs are surely not capable :lol2: of participating in assessment, critical thinking, or any kind of postive outcome for our residents. Sometimes, I wonder why they even pay me!! ;)

I agree with you 100%. I am an RN now, but was an LPN/ MDS coordinator for years. I went on to school and they never did teach me in RN school exactly how to check all those little boxes to see that the MDS was complete. All that education wasted :lol2:

Here's a bigger secret.. I did all the coordination as the LPN, because it confused the RN and she hated doing it.

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It depends on your state. In NY LPNs are barred from doing a lot in LTC, either by the education law or facilities not wanting to risk interpreting it too loosely.

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Specializes in Assessment coordinator.

I have been an RNAC for eight years. I have always depended on reliable LPN's for the bulk completion of LTC/VA contract and Indian Health Service acute patients. I have the primary responsibility for making sure that the bills that go to Medicare and other skilled payor sources reflect the care that is given by all disciplines, not just nursing. I cannot do my job without my LPN office mate. If he left, so would I. That being said, he is open to guidance, although he feels as you do, that the state negates his skills. I have worked with LPN's who made more money for assessments than I did because their companies were desperate. Don't get down on yourself, but also don't get down on the co-ordinator who signs the R2b. Your RN needs you, and knows it.

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Specializes in LTC, sub-acute, MDS.

Very well said.:yeah: I, for one, have never been "down" on RN's; they have been mentors for years....you cannot work in any industry for 30 + years and not become proficient in your skills. By virtue of outdated state and federal regulation, and the stiffing NCSBN, who barely even consider us nurses; concerning our scope of practice, we have been increasingly relegated to the role of glorified nurses aides. It's a shame that an industry such as ours so easily throws experienced and qualified nurses under the bus! Thanks for your comments!

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Specializes in Long term care.

I'm an LPN, and I agree. My MDS Coordinator tells me all the time that she doesn't know what she'd do without me....I know for a fact that things would be falling apart if I didn't take care of the assessment & patients on my caseload as well as I do.

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Specializes in Long Term Care, Medical Surgical, ER.

Hello,

I think its funny that people think we need RNs to sign as well, but at my facility we don't have a problem with it... Here is how we do it..

I, an LPN, am the MDS Coordiantor and my DON and I are the only ones really making the MDS "team."

I complete the MDS, Code the MDS, and my DON validates them, and sends thems off... (She also does all the entries/discharges.) We have care plan meetings once a week and there we all sign together as a team... of course my DON, being an RN, signs section Z as the RN Coordiantor...

On top of MDS, I also do Medical Records, Stock and Supply, and keep up with the nursing budget for our 3 buildings (Skilled, Assisted Living, and Residental Care Center.)

Talking about a headache....

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I'm an LPN and have been a nurse for 15 years and a MDS Coordinator for four years. I like my job and the challenges that it brings. I work as the MDS Coordinator and do everything in the building but PPS which gives me 100+ patients at any given time. Our PPS runs around 18-25.

The transition to MDS 3.0 just happened to coincide with our transition to our new computer system.....UGGH....to say the least. The PPS Coordinator and I have been working closely with our team to make the transitions as smooth as possible. Not much help from the Corporate office......our team has been coming to us for all their questions and we are stronger for it.

None of our transmissions have had validation yet....but we continue to submit...lots of problems with the CMS website.

Hopefully MDS 3.0 will be a nightmare of past in a couple of months.

Hang in there.

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