Male Nurses/female Patients

[ern91]

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

[troutfishinEMT]

Once again - what she said. (Earle). It sucks bigtime that we live in the litigious society where male nurses are afraid to be in a room with a female pt, and sometimes women are sued for "improper" assessments. But it IS true that a heterosexual guy is going to come under a lot more scrutiny than a woman if a pt cries foul. (Thinks I might do the Paramedic thing so I don't have to deal with this... nah... love nursing... hmmm... still thinking about it... damn.) Still doing both.

I mentioned a crazy OB pt - they are there on med/surg floors, too, and the ED - whoosh! A guy can end up in trouble, quickly. And women can, as well.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

I wonder how often 'privacy' or 'modesty' is considered when the patient is male and the nurse female.

In other words - would/should the same arguments be made if the shoe was on the other foot?

Because the way I see it, it is clearly unacceptable. At the very least, it's unfair and at the most, it's unjust. Merely shrugging our shoulders and writing it off to "human nature" doesn't solve the problem - it merely avoids it.

EDIT: I agree with Leslie that very often, this is an emotional rather than an intellectual response. But I propose that this emotional response wasn't considered much of a problem even a hundred years ago - why is it an issue now?

My theory is that the past hundred years haven't seen this become an issue simply because there weren't that many men in the nursing workforce to create an issue. Now that more and more men are joining the force, this is bound to come up time and again.

We saw it happen in the reverse with firefighters, paramedics and physicians. We will suerly see it happen in nursing - give it aniother 7 years and see how much MORE of an issue this is!

So: Granted we admit for the vagaries of human existence:

How to we bring about change while respecting it?

cheers,

[leslie :-D]

100 yrs ago, no, there probably were not an abundance of male nurses.

compounded with the fact that women had no voices, no rights.

so if a female pt had a male nurse, i doubt she would have dared to voice her discomfort.

roy, a woman can refuse care from a male treater for any damn reason she wants to.

whether it's modesty, fear, or just because she took 100 suck pills that day: she or any person can refuse care.

it's not about fair because it's not about us.

if you're trying to change the climate of this thread and refocus to the rights of the nurses, then i suppose a sociologist would be better equipped to evaluate gender responses.

in the long run and as a whole, how do male pts feel about receiving personal care from a female nurse?

did their upbringing in american society influence ones' experience(s)?

did the exposure of public male restrooms and open locker rooms affect mens' attitudes?

or having it acceptable to relieve oneself amongst any given tree of mother nature?

or being celebrated because of your many sexual conquests by age 19?

generally speaking, is it easier for american men to receive personal care, because of aforementioned?

there's always a choice. a pt can refuse.

the outcome might not be ideal, but as long as your pt is aware of any potential consequences, then it's their choice to make.

but for saying it's not fair?

in many instances, it probably isn't.

you do have individual rights however.

and if everyone collectively exercised their rights, this would create the change you speak of.

give it time.

and appreciate that you do have choices, and rights.

exercise them.

i'm not just talking about female nurse, male pt.

but in every single area of your life.

don't just say "it's not fair".

become proactive.

no one is totally powerless.

don't succumb to a victim mentality.

don't wait to debate with others about "what to do".

just do it.

leslie

[58flyer]

there is absolutely nothing improper about receiving care from a treater of the opposite sex.

i believe i stated that intellectually, i recognize the capabilities of male nurses and male doctors.

but when there is an emotional reaction, regardless of its' etiology, then intellect will seldom supercede emotion and all of its' baggage.

i cannot get past the trauma of my past, no matter how hard i try or how often i tell myself that i'm being silly.

not only are my knee-jerk reactions emotional, they are also somatic where i become tachycardic, diaphoretic, palpitations, the whole gamut.

there are many who remain products of their past.

I was just trying to understand your feelings when you treat an opposite sex patient. What are you thinking when you are performing intimate care on a male knowing that if the role were reversed you would find it unacceptable? In a prior post I brought up my own previous experience that was traumatic to say the least. And since it occurred at the hands of a nurse it makes recieving future care all the more problematic. So I think I know where you are coming from.

[leslie :-D]

I was just trying to understand your feelings when you treat an opposite sex patient. What are you thinking when you are performing intimate care on a male knowing that if the role were reversed you would find it unacceptable? In a prior post I brought up my own previous experience that was traumatic to say the least. And since it occurred at the hands of a nurse it makes recieving future care all the more problematic. So I think I know where you are coming from.

ok, i see what you're asking.

if anything, i tend to project my feelings: i 'assume' all my male pts are horrified that i, a female, is providing their care, in the absence of a same-gender nurse.

in 'assuming' that, my empathy encourages for wives, gfs to be present during personal care and/or procedures, if that will make my male pt more comfortable.

my empathy motivates me to be extra considerate, professional, sensitive and quick as possible.

i try to provide the kind of care that i would appreciate, if i were the pt.

and it bears repeating: i am a horrible, horrible pt.

leslie

[leslie :-D]

Once again - what she said. (Earle). It sucks bigtime that we live in the litigious society where male nurses are afraid to be in a room with a female pt, and sometimes women are sued for "improper" assessments. But it IS true that a heterosexual guy is going to come under a lot more scrutiny than a woman if a pt cries foul. (Thinks I might do the Paramedic thing so I don't have to deal with this... nah... love nursing... hmmm... still thinking about it... damn.) Still doing both.

I mentioned a crazy OB pt - they are there on med/surg floors, too, and the ED - whoosh! A guy can end up in trouble, quickly. And women can, as well.

i understand what you're saying.

but in this litigious society, it's more important than ever to have meticulous nsg notes.

crying sexual impropriety is just a small element.

pts can try and sue us for just about anything they can concoct.

and i've heard of some beauties.

[froghair]

as a male nurse i have washed countless female patients and inserted more female catheters than i care to remember. when working in emergency i felt uncomfortable if a young female patient was needing to be assessed. when doing things like ecg's i would have the area mostly covered and go by anatomical markers but you can see that they are just as "uncomfortable" as you are. i am also very wary if an elderly lady is a miss im sure they dont want to be in a compromising situation with a male nurse...... on the other side of the coin there have been countless times when female nurses have palmed of dirty old bastard men to me or i get to look after a male patient for the only reason that im male so the shoe is sometimes on the other foot as well.

also not being a male you would find it very hard to understand the position that any litigation or acusations would put on a male. because being cited for improper/sexual offences is the worst acusation that can be labled at a guy......well thats my opinion

[West_Coast_Ken, BSN, RN]

...at least one well known and well respected hospital backs all male nurses by telling PTs they will help them check into another hospital if they have a problem with male nurses.

Outstanding. Where is this place and why aren't there more facilities like this one?

I'd love to see pts try to say "Only female doctors, please."

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

As much as I would deplore the notion of palming off work on female colleagues because it made me uncomfortable, I cannot feel offended if a female patient asks for a female to assist with toileting, etc., or even to be assigned a female nurse. Nor do I feel put out if a female nurse asks me to assist her male patient.

I'm lucky to work with a good mix of men and women who work together well. Especially on weekends, we tend to have pretty much the same crew, night after night, and we know each other well enough that helping each other is pretty much automatic. Then, too, our population is such that for every little lady who needs straight-cath'ed, there's a large, strong, confused and combative man that needs 3-4 of us to subdue, or heading toward a code, or status epilepticus, or...if we didn't work together, I don't suppose many of us would last a month.

Frankly, there are several experienced aides I'll trust to assess a bottom for breakdown, if it helps the patient be comfortable. I very much prefer to let them handle toileting and baths, as far as practical, too. It's a rare night that we nurses have trouble finding ways to keep busy.

[8vincent8]

I am a male nurse with 10 years experience. I have performed many female catheters and ECG's. However over the last five years I have adopted a policy of having a chaperone because of the threat of an allegation of misconduct.

Recently I moved to an organisation that does not discriminate toward male nurses performing female catheters. Many people would admire this but I actually expressed a concern over putting myself in a vunerable position in our unfortuneate litigacious society.

The result was that I was told that is the job and basically I would have to do it.

I have reservations about performing this task alone in a patients house. Are there others who feel the same and if so have you found any published literature on the subject.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

I'd love to see pts try to say "Only female doctors, please."

Actually, I did for several years. And it was accomodated. Given my reasons for requesting the accomodation, most practitioners were okay with it.

[58flyer]

Actually, I did for several years. And it was accomodated. Given my reasons for requesting the accomodation, most practitioners were okay with it.

I am happy for you that they listened to you, something they don't often do for men, at least in my experience.