Male Nurses/female Patients

[ern91]

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

[leslie :-D]

in american culture, little girls are taught from a very young age to act like a lady, even a little lady if you're 5.

but it was always acceptable for little boys to be anything but little gentlemen.

public restrooms have always preserved a females' modesty by giving us enclosed stalls-not so for the very public urinals.

girl sleeps around = fast & easy.

guy sleeps around = virile, manly, romeo.

compound the high incidence of female rape and sexual assault in many of our lifetimes, one just cannot appreciate what goes through an adult womans' mind in the hospital.

yes, there are many females who don't care if their nurse is male or female.

but especially in a hospital, when one is sick, frightened, vulnerable...i can't bank on all my pts thinking purely on an intellectual level.

pt reactions to what they perceive as invasive, is often based on an emotional and gutteral response.

if i was a pt?

God help my nurse.

i am probably one of the most non-compliant sobs around.

and have a male cath me?????

not in this lifetime.

do i know that you guys are perfectly capable of catheterizing a woman?

of course i do.

do i care?

no.

and there are plenty more just like me.

this is your nsg world.

welcome to it.

leslie

[troutfishinEMT]

in american culture, little girls are taught from a very young age to act like a lady, even a little lady if you're 5.

but it was always acceptable for little boys to be anything but little gentlemen.

public restrooms have always preserved a females' modesty by giving us enclosed stalls-not so for the very public urinals.

girl sleeps around = fast & easy.

guy sleeps around = virile, manly, romeo.

compound the high incidence of female rape and sexual assault in many of our lifetimes, one just cannot appreciate what goes through an adult womans' mind in the hospital.

yes, there are many females who don't care if their nurse is male or female.

but especially in a hospital, when one is sick, frightened, vulnerable...i can't bank on all my pts thinking purely on an intellectual level.

pt reactions to what they perceive as invasive, is often based on an emotional and gutteral response.

if i was a pt?

God help my nurse.

i am probably one of the most non-compliant sobs around.

and have a male cath me?????

not in this lifetime.

do i know that you guys are perfectly capable of catheterizing a woman?

of course i do.

do i care?

no.

and there are plenty more just like me.

this is your nsg world.

welcome to it.

leslie

EXACTLY! (the part about knowing we're capable but asking for a female nurse to do it.) Any nurse worth a hoot, male or female, should ask the pt before the procedure. If the pt is female and asks for a female nurse to insert/dc her Foley, I don't see how that makes the male nurse a "slacker".

I had a pt on thursday, totally psychotic. No problem if I was doing psych, but I'm doing OB! When we were doing report that morning, I told my nurse that I wasn't even going in the room without her. (Someone posted about ten pages back about a pt with altered mentation threatening to tell her family that a CNA had raped her)...

Bottom line I think is that you gotta CYA, and try to give back as much as you get, favor-wise. (Haven't seen a thread on here started by a man who said "why is it every time we have to move someone who weighs over 150 lbs, the women try to make me help/do it?") :trout:

[leslie :-D]

i'm sorry if you misunderstood me trout.

i personally would never ask one of my colleagues to take on one of my pts BEFORE i even spoke w/the pt.

only IF they requested a same gender nurse, then i would try and oblige, and that's after trying to gently dissuade them.

but i would never presume to get another nurse before it was even requested.

as for those pts where we need to truly cover our butts, then working in 2 is warranted.

i usually grab the nsg assistant for help.

and write darned, clear notes. :)

darn, i'm thinking of a pt i had one time.

a middle-aged woman who loved, LOVED male attn.

the mets to her brain had altered her ms, so she wasn't a reliable historian.

the potential for legal liability was too great, aeb her history.

but this lady, she WANTED a male nurse- to catheterize her on admission, giver her bed baths, back rubs...

well, we did find her a male nurse.

this nurse was mandated to have someone w/him at all times.

and he was one of the most awesome nurses i've had the privilege of working with.

in her final days, he made her feel so incredibly special, safe and loved.

initially she had made sexual overtures towards him.

and this nurse was such a pro.

he turned the situation around effortlessly.

sorry, i'm getting off track.

my point being, is we meet all kinds.

there is nothing textbook about many of our pts.

but if we put our personal needs aside and aim to do right by our patients, it can be a memorable and gratifying relationship that lasts far after they're gone. :balloons:

leslie

[jb2u, ASN, RN]

while we all recognize that men entering the nsg profession is one of the answers to our nsg shortage, it's still important to acknowledge that this has been a female-dominated profession for centuries.

and so, we are not going to randomly reverse these biases.

it's going to take decades.

Actually, It has only been female dominated for A century, since the early 1900's.

Here is some more info that everyone may be interested in!

-The first nursing school in the world was exclusively male and in India around 250 BC.

-St. Benedict founded the Benedictine Nursing order. (a male only nursing order)

-In 1300, The Alexian Brothers, men, organized to provide NURSING care to victims of the Black Death.

-The Alexian Brothers also founded schools in the US (they were male only schools of nursing).

-The first identified nurse in the U.S. was Fray Juan de Mena (a man).

-In 1783, a black slave by the name of James Derham was owned by a Doctor. He worked as a NURSE until he earned his freedom and went on to medical school. Where he became a Doctor and opened a practice in Philly.

-The ANA banned men from being members 1917 until 1930. Due to the efforts of the ANA as well as other organizations, men were excluded from military nursing, when the Army Nursing Corps was established, until after the Korean War. Prior to the ANA's efforts military nursing was exclusively then predominately MALE. The men who were nurses when the Army Nursing Corps was established were not allowed to practice as nurses in the military.

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My point is, society changed it's view of Men in Nursing because men were forced out of the role. Had men been able to continue their role through out the last 100 years then we would be more accepted. We would not always hear the comment "oh, your a male nurse." And, women would accept intimate care from a male nurse just as easily as they accept it as standard when it is given by a male doctor.

[leslie :-D]

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And, women would accept intimate care from a male nurse just as easily as they accept it as standard when it is given by a male doctor.

i don't accept intimate care from a male nurse or doctor.

all my doctors have always been female.

i don't think that doctor/pt relationships can ever be compared to nurse/pt relationships.

there has always been a gross imbalance between dr and pt.

we (speaking generically) wait ridiculously long amts of time after our appointments, as if our time isn't valuable.

it's ok that doctors make us wait. afterall they're the doctor.

they hold much more value than us commoners.

we don't think twice about them giving us 5 minutes of hurried time, only too intimidated to ask questions that we don't understand.

we tolerate all this because well, they're doctors.

so while i think there are many female pts that cringe when being intimately examined by a male doctor, they still allow it; afterall, they're the doctor.

jb, do you see where i'm going w/this?

when pts are w/their nurses, they don't feel that type of intimidation.

if anything, they feel safe enough w/us to exercise any perceived autonomy.

i don't think it's comparing apples to apples.

and btw, you know what makes me such a terrible pt (other than refusing male treaters)?

if i have an appt, i never wait more than 15 minutes.

then i walk.

i ask questions and expect easy-to-understand answers.

i do not readily comply w/proposed txs until i can research.

and then i'll get back to them w/my answer.

i have no problems asserting myself, w/o being a b*tch.

but i'm still considered a b*tch.

i presume it's because i'm a female.

if i were a male, well, they're just not b*tchy.

sigh....

bottom line?

gender biases are here to remain for a long time.

we are striving for and improving in more androgenous relationships.

but we have a ways to go.

we'll get there.

i'm hoping my adult grandchildren will be able to share their very unbiased stories...i'm thinking in around 50 yrs?

btw, thanks for the history lesson on male nsg. :balloons:

leslie

[jb2u, ASN, RN]

OK..so we agree that gender biases exist, time will change that, and Men in Nursing are here to care.

[leslie :-D]

OK..so we agree that gender biases exist, time will change that, and Men in Nursing are here to care.

if men and women continue in their respective journeys for equality in societal perceptions, then yes, time will abate any residual biases.

and men will be and should be a welcome and needed addition to the nsg workplace.

in the meantime, we can individually strive to make a difference w/our pts by acting competently, professionally and sensitively.

working together, anything is possible.....in time. :balloons:

leslie

[troutfishinEMT]

Didn't misunderstand you, Earle - was in fact, agreeing with you (something like "EXACTLY! You understand guys can cath you, but want a woman to do it! No problem, here - I totally understand" - also said that any nurse worth a crap would talk to the pt beforehand and make sure they were comfortable with it... and I would try to convince any woman/and/or family member that I'm a professional and performing "intimate" care is part of my job that is absolutely not a big deal... I said pretty much exactly what you said....) scratching head...

All I added was a little frustration at the end about the psychotic GYN patient that made me paranoid, and the fact that this thread was started in the male nursing forum, by a woman *****ing about how male nurses "run" when it comes to anything like work with a female pt!

I don't try and force myself on pts who are clearly uncomfortable, and I don't say "Hey Mary- got a chick in 203A - you're going to have to take her if she needs her butt wiped, 'cause I'm a guy and can't do that."

If the woman in 715B SAYS she doesn't want me to see her butt... well, then, if I can't dissuade her, I GOTTA ask Mary to um... cover MY butt... Figuratively speaking... and of course, I'll take Mary's violent prisoner, and help her getting all 300 pounds out of bed 412A - so it usually evens out.

Anyways - just saying - I didn't misunderstand your post at all - I totally get it. (And I made up room numbers on different floors so no one could call in the HIPAA police.)

[jb2u, ASN, RN]

Getting back on the track of the original post....

I do not run get a female just because I have a female pt in need of intimate care. I do get a female if my pt asks OR I sense she is uncomfortable (no, I do not ask IF she wants a female first, nor should I. Reason already stated in a previous post.)

That being said, I don't like it when someone says I'll give that bath for you and you can do Mr. so-and-so for me (considering that he didn't ask for a man). The reason is because I will no dought be called several times during any given shift to lift, pull, ambulate, settle down, etc...any time they feel they "need a man." Swithching pts does NOT even things out, it just adds MORE to my list of duties for the day. Some people think "oh, I gave a bath for you so you can do a bath for me," but that's faulty logic. If she were to consider how much I do for her throughout the day, I'm sure the thought of switching would not enter her mind. IF she wanted to be FAIR, of course.

[benco1]

Thank you for that, being a male nurse for over 35 years I have seen a great change in males coming into nursing, My bottom line is what would the patient feel like if a male were to do certain things. I use a chaperone only when dealing with a younger age group or older ladies set in their ways. If it is an emergency etc., Has a female ever had a male not want them to take care of them?? Put yourself in our shoes --My license is to valuable to risk because of false accusations or temperment, I guard it very carefully. Benco1

[58flyer]

i don't accept intimate care from a male nurse or doctor.

all my doctors have always been female.

leslie

Leslie, do you perform intimate care on male patients? If so, aren't you concerned that you may be doing them some harm? Since you stated that you don't accept intimate care from men, it is apparent that you don't think it is proper. Why then would you do something to your patient that you believe is wrong?

[leslie :-D]

Since you stated that you don't accept intimate care from men, it is apparent that you don't think it is proper. Why then would you do something to your patient that you believe is wrong?

there is absolutely nothing improper about receiving care from a treater of the opposite sex.

i believe i stated that intellectually, i recognize the capabilities of male nurses and male doctors.

but when there is an emotional reaction, regardless of its' etiology, then intellect will seldom supercede emotion and all of its' baggage.

i cannot get past the trauma of my past, no matter how hard i try or how often i tell myself that i'm being silly.

not only are my knee-jerk reactions emotional, they are also somatic where i become tachycardic, diaphoretic, palpitations, the whole gamut.

there are many who remain products of their past.

even when there isn't trauma involved, there still remains those who are tremendously private and modest.

and those who do consider it an act of impropriety.

and those who are hopelessly old-fashioned.

it's not a matter of right or wrong.

emotional responses are too gray an area to be deemed "right or wrong".

if i thought it was wrong for me, then it would be wrong across the board:

that male nurses should never perform personal care on a female pt., or vice-versa.

but i don't think that way-never have.

my contention is that while there exists alot of shoulds and should-nots, human nature, w/all his fallibilities, is what we deal with when people are sick and vulnerable.

and so, all of its' injustices are put aside.

with peace...