Male Nurses/female Patients

nursemike, ASN, RN · Jul 25, 2006

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

I'm a male nurse, and I frequently have to perform fairly intimate care on female patients. Much less frequently than I might once have imagined, a female patient may request a female nurse or aide to assist with toileting or a bath. In my first year of nursing, I've had two patients request a female nurse be assigned to them instead of a male, and one other swapped after I told my charge nurse about some rather bizarre comments she had made (it didn't occur to me that I could ask to have her reassigned, but when my CN suggested it, I was really glad she was looking out for me. Looking out for all of us, really.)

I almost never ask a patient whether she would prefer a female nurse to do something for her. If they don't bring it up, neither do I. I do occassionally need to take a moment to compose myself before going in to do something I find awkward or embarrassing, but overcoming my feelings is part and parcel of being a nurse. Very, very rarely I'll have a situation that causes me to ask a female to do it without even trying--a patient who has been noticeably modest about a simple head-to-toe assessment and now needs a foley, for example. But that, to me, is like asking someone to start an IV that I haven't even attempted. Except for once in a blue moon, it just isn't done.

I do, at times, ask a female aide, or a nurse who isn't busy, to "chaperone" a proceedure.

I never, ever balk at providing personal care for a female co-worker's bashful male patient. It doesn't happen often, I'll admit, but when it does, I assume it's about the patient's comfort, rather than anything to do with the nurse. I also never balk at helping with lifts and transfers. It happens to be something I'm pretty good at doing, and I really enjoy being part of a team of very good nurses who work very well together. Any chance to contribute to that is welcome. Besides, I never know when I might get an order for a foley on a 16-yr-old girl.

PS I work in a teaching hospital. WV is unusual in not really having any major urban center, but a couple of our larger small cities are downright comsopolitan, compared to our many rural communities. A lot of our 20th Century sensibilities might not fly at a 20-bed hospital, back up in the hollers where the sun don't shine but twice a year.

Jasano · Jul 25, 2006

LOL...when looking at history one notices the swarms of bees in the bonnets of women. While I respect your right to your opinion, and realize many people feel this way, I think it is based on an emotional response instead of a review of history and current facts. But I will put a disclaimer here that this is only my opinion...and doesn't mean I think it is superior to yours.
Besides, I don't want to kill the laughter from Jay's last post...we were finally agreeing!

Well, I disagree with you completely. There is no justification for discrimination against men or against women. You seem to be quite willing to overlook some rather blatant discrimination against men, because of some hardship that women have had to endure. Wrong is wrong in my view, irregardless of genitalia. ;in this, at least, women have the government, the media, all the king's horses and their little men on their side.

I think it's funny that when men are discriminated against in fields like nursing, that no one bats and eye, but when some woman somewhere feels someone 'might' have treated her unfairly, the entire press gallery shows up with government officials in tow to right the 'perceived' wrong. Let me tell you boys, there are quotas for medicine, paramedics, policing and dozens if not hundreds of other professions, but there is not one quota, not one initiative, not one comittee, examining issues related to men in nursing.

twotrees2 · Jul 26, 2006

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

we do have one who is leary and we do not hve a problem helping hom when we can - he will do it but we know he is uncomfortable so we try to help if at all possible abd he is more than willing to exchange a charge if we ask.

tgeorgeacero · Jul 26, 2006

I, as a male RN, never had any problems with performing patient care or procedures on female patients until, several months ago, while I was working in a long-term health care facility, the LPN supervisor ordered me to straight cath a female patient. I took two CNAs into the room with me, as I wanted witnesses for the procedure, and I thank God that I had the intelligence to do so. The next day, the DON called me and said, very angrily, that the LPNs (I was the only RN in the building) were accusing me of abusing the patient that I had cathererized. I assume that the DON believed the LPN's accusations at first. I calmly referred her to the CNAs that witnessed what I had done, and I never heard from her again. I never returned to this facility again, and I will never work as an RN with an LPN as my supervisor again either. I have nothing against LPNs, and I do everything I can to avoid problems and confrontations with anyone. I thought that I was on good terms with everyone there, as well. I was wrong. Maybe they felt uncomfortable because I am a Mexican-American. I don't know why nurses are so hard on each other, but this experience has made me very reluctant to perform some procedures on female patients. I hope that some of the nurses who read this reply will think about the possible reasons that a male nurse might have to be hesitant to perform some procedures. He just may of had to endure a nightmare situation which left a few psychological scars.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Jul 26, 2006

Well, I disagree with you completely. There is no justification for discrimination against men or against women. You seem to be quite willing to overlook some rather blatant discrimination against men, because of some hardship that women have had to endure. Wrong is wrong in my view, irregardless of genitalia. ;in this, at least, women have the government, the media, all the king's horses and their little men on their side.
I think it's funny that when men are discriminated against in fields like nursing, that no one bats and eye, but when some woman somewhere feels someone 'might' have treated her unfairly, the entire press gallery shows up with government officials in tow to right the 'perceived' wrong. Let me tell you boys, there are quotas for medicine, paramedics, policing and dozens if not hundreds of other professions, but there is not one quota, not one initiative, not one comittee, examining issues related to men in nursing.

There's a thread on Discrimination Against Men in Nursing that discusses these issues at some length, and might be more appropriate to this side of the debate. Judging by some of those posts, discrimination against men does occur, although many of us, including me, have never experienced it. Seems to depend a lot on where you are.

twotrees2 · Jul 27, 2006

As a male nursing student (Senior in a BSN program) it is required that I have a Female RN present at all times when doing any proceedure in the Nurse's scope of practice in reguard to female patients. During my OB/GYN clinical rotation, I have in fact had 1 and only 1 patient flatly refuse to allow me to do her Labor and delivery care. Her response was "Oh my God - there is a MAN in my room" when I introduced myself as I walked in the door accompanied by my Female RN instructor. I excused myself and exited the room quickly. Every patient has a right to refuse medical care for any reason or no reason at all. We as nuses both male and female need to accept this as the fact of our employment. We are expected to work on the floor or the unit as a team. If one team member can't do a task for ANY reason, it is up to the other team members to fill in the void. A female student quickly assumed my patient in this situation, and I was re assigned to her patient for the duration of the shift. I worked at that point with the breast feeding consultant (another female RN) and helped a new Mom learn to position and breast feed her son. I still learned much that dayand contributed my fair share of the work load, in spite of the issue of my "maleness". I think if we are adults about such things, all issues can be resolved and patients given the care they need.

i am very grateful more men are gttiing int o nursing. when truth be told many men prefer a man but they just "accept " a female as that is the "usual norm" - when i am able i offer to have a male do a cath or cares on a man and often they will gladly prefer it. thanks to all you males who are getting in the setting. you are welcome and needed. thank you.

twotrees2 · Jul 27, 2006

I would believe it is possible for men to move up in many areas to management positions in nursing faster. Don't have stats to support that though. There are numerous treads that show men are normally treated with more respect IN GENERAL by doctors and other nurses. It's not all bad in other words.
There are several issues I see here though. Patients who are uncomfortable with being cared for by a male I can deal with fine. They should be comfortable, and we need to respect that.
The real issue that should be resolved FIRST is a management and administration view that needs that causes dangerous inequality. This is that when an allegation is made of sexual abuse, MEN get suspended with out pay, or fired, or looked at as a major liability, immediately. This affects their careers sometimes permanently, WHEN THEY DID NOTHING WRONG and the case is unfounded! Female nurses are often treated as the victims if they are reported. Yes an investigation is done, but many of them keep working and being paid. If the charge is unfounded they can go on with normally no ill effects. The hospital will stand behind the woman and crucify the man. This is where the true inequality lies.

in our facility ANY person charged with ANY abuse is lead out of the building immediately wthout pay until the investigation is done. regardless of gender - we have had some come back they did what they were blamed for and fired aAND reported to the proper autorities and licensing bueres and the others come back with apologies - personally i think they shoudl then be reimberesed for lost wages but that aint gonna happen but i woudl rather have them sent home and it investigated and found not guilty then take the chance someone was actually doingit and would again before they had a chance to be let go.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Aug 1, 2006

I don't want to duplicate post, but in a thread on OB clinicals I thought of a point relevant to this thread. Strange, but I just realized I've been doing this, and since it almost seems contrary to everything I've been taught, I wanted to add it here.

To wit: Nurses are people. Patients are people. We are professionals, it's true, but we're still people, and I don't see anything wrong with acting like people. A lot of the time, approaching a female patient, I frankly admit that this can seem a little embarassing or uncomfortable, then explain how I intend to minimize it--keep everything covered that doesn't need exposed, etc. In general, patients have been very willing to go along with this. Many older ladies, who've been hospitalized on multiple occassions, simply say don't worry about it, they're long past being modest, but I think most still appreciate the consideration. With younger patients, a simple warning of what's to be done, and why, seems to ease the situation a bit.

I also try to apply a little common sense. During clinicals, I learned the hard way on and older, obese lady that the heart isn't as affected by gravity as the breast is, so that her apical pulse was best appreciated above the breast, rather than below. Now, this isn't as anatomically true of some adolescent patients I've had at work, but a.) these were not cardiac pts and b.) their heart sounds were nice and strong, so I didn't feel it was strictly necessary to auscultate below the breast. So I wasn't right at the apex. So what? Nor did I assess the butt of a five-year-old who cried when I asked her name. She was there less than a week. Her Braden score was 46, out of a possible 23. Bed-mobility was as good as it can be without a prehensile tail. Explained to her mother that I saw little risk of pressure ulcers--she laughed and agreed.

I've even been known to extend this honesty to male pts--I need to put this tube through your urethra. Neither of us is going to enjoy it, but do tell me if it's very painful...

I think it's entirely possible to be professional and human at the same time, and a lot of times it seems to get the patient on your side.

Corvette Guy · Aug 2, 2006

I don't want to duplicate post, but in a thread on OB clinicals I thought of a point relevant to this thread. Strange, but I just realized I've been doing this, and since it almost seems contrary to everything I've been taught, I wanted to add it here.
To wit: Nurses are people. Patients are people. We are professionals, it's true, but we're still people, and I don't see anything wrong with acting like people. A lot of the time, approaching a female patient, I frankly admit that this can seem a little embarassing or uncomfortable, then explain how I intend to minimize it--keep everything covered that doesn't need exposed, etc. In general, patients have been very willing to go along with this. Many older ladies, who've been hospitalized on multiple occassions, simply say don't worry about it, they're long past being modest, but I think most still appreciate the consideration. With younger patients, a simple warning of what's to be done, and why, seems to ease the situation a bit.
I also try to apply a little common sense. During clinicals, I learned the hard way on and older, obese lady that the heart isn't as affected by gravity as the breast is, so that her apical pulse was best appreciated above the breast, rather than below. Now, this isn't as anatomically true of some adolescent patients I've had at work, but a.) these were not cardiac pts and b.) their heart sounds were nice and strong, so I didn't feel it was strictly necessary to auscultate below the breast. So I wasn't right at the apex. So what? Nor did I assess the butt of a five-year-old who cried when I asked her name. She was there less than a week. Her Braden score was 46, out of a possible 23. Bed-mobility was as good as it can be without a prehensile tail. Explained to her mother that I saw little risk of pressure ulcers--she laughed and agreed.
I've even been known to extend this honesty to male pts--I need to put this tube through your urethra. Neither of us is going to enjoy it, but do tell me if it's very painful...
I think it's entirely possible to be professional and human at the same time, and a lot of times it seems to get the patient on your side.

Bottom line, explain to the patient what needs to be done, why it needs to be done, then professionally ... git-r-done. :)

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Aug 2, 2006

I think it's entirely possible to be professional and human at the same time, and a lot of times it seems to get the patient on your side.

Bottom line, explain to the patient what needs to be done, why it needs to be done, then professionally ... git-r-done. :)

I agree :)

JessicRN · Aug 2, 2006

I work in the ED and we have 4 male nurses none of whom do ECG's catheterizations and pelvic exams or do any personnel hygiene on ANY women this is not in their contract they just decided this and everyone followed. I have yet to hear a patient refuse the male nurse either here. I do not mind helping out, but when I am the only female this gets very annoying. Cathing a male is easy and cleaning there genatalia is no big deal but I have come across a few rambunctious males mostly the older ones and the drunks. so do not perform anything extremely personal without a witness either on anyone either. But I have used a witness of the same sex usually an aid to perform these tasks. I have gone to these same nurses and asked them to tend to my males private needs and surprisingly these male nurses are just as squeemish about cathing and cleaning males as they are about females imagine that. :devil:

Lets face it, cathing a male is easy,cathing a female is not. Doing catheterizatations and cleaning up the drunk, obese and unwashed violent people are very unpleasant tasks, tasks I do not want to do voluntarily. (The ED I work in is a public health one so about 90% fit this mold mostly the unwashed ) so be expected to do them as a matter of course just because they are male is unfair. Why can't they do them and I assist or be in the room.

I am the only one at work who when approached by a male nurse to provide one of these tasks insist they help. (they take off on the other female nurses). They did not like it at first and I got alot of flack from my fellow female nurses but I stood my ground. I have to admit I can be bought though to do it with another aid :devil: like them getting me a coffee or taking the next nasty patient. (the violent overdose who needs charcoal or the homeless drunk who vomitted and urinated on himself). The other nurses see me doing this and they are very slowly seeing the light. :idea:

In my opinion if a male is sooooo afraid of being accused of doing a basic essential task and having a female witness present is not good enough and not thinking this is a huge favor to ask a female and thinking this is as it should be, you are in the wrong profession. Any adminitrator who condones this is also in the wrong.

Can someone show me where a male nurse was sued doing one of these tasks with a female present and the task was documented. If he documents well he is safe if he takes a witness he is safe. We live in a very litigious world now so who is to say a female does not sue another female for doing the same task. While it is not as likely why is that so absurd?. Just play it safe take a witness when doing any procedure on any patient, that is my motto

nursemike, ASN, RN · Aug 2, 2006

I work in the ED and we have 4 male nurses none of whom do ECG's catheterizations and pelvic exams or do any personnel hygiene on ANY women this is not in their contract they just decided this and everyone followed. I have yet to hear a patient refuse the male nurse either here. I do not mind helping out, but when I am the only female this gets very annoying. Cathing a male is easy and cleaning there genatalia is no big deal but I have come across a few rambunctious males mostly the older ones and the drunks. so do not perform anything extremely personal without a witness either on anyone either. But I have used a witness of the same sex usually an aid to perform these tasks. I have gone to these same nurses and asked them to tend to my males private needs and surprisingly these male nurses are just as squeemish about cathing and cleaning males as they are about females imagine that.
Lets face it, cathing a male is easy,cathing a female is not. Doing catheterizatations and cleaning up the drunk, obese and unwashed violent people are very unpleasant tasks, tasks I do not want to do voluntarily. (The ED I work in is a public health one so about 90% fit this mold mostly the unwashed ) so be expected to do them as a matter of course just because they are male is unfair. Why can't they do them and I assist or be in the room.
I am the only one at work who when approached by a male nurse to provide one of these tasks insist they help. (they take off on the other female nurses). They did not like it at first and I got alot of flack from my fellow female nurses but I stood my ground. I have to admit I can be bought though to do it with another aid like them getting me a coffee or taking the next nasty patient. (the violent overdose who needs charcoal or the homeless drunk who vomitted and urinated on himself). The other nurses see me doing this and they are very slowly seeing the light.
In my opinion if a male is sooooo afraid of being accused of doing a basic essential task and having a female witness present is not good enough and not thinking this is a huge favor to ask a female and thinking this is as it should be, you are in the wrong profession. Any adminitrator who condones this is also in the wrong.
Can someone show me where a male nurse was sued doing one of these tasks with a female present and the task was documented. If he documents well he is safe if he takes a witness he is safe. We live in a very litigious world now so who is to say a female does not sue another female for doing the same task. While it is not as likely why is that so absurd?. Just play it safe take a witness when doing any procedure on any patient, that is my motto

Sorry for your negative experience. I hope you've seen that this attitude is by no means universal. The approach you've taken seems like a good start, but I think the next step might be to offer to precept them on doing the procedures themselves. I agree that anyone unwilling to perform these tasks is in the wrong profession.

Is your supervisor aware of the situation? If so, and unwilling to correct it, I would think you could make the case that you're being subjected to a hostile work environment. Piling on extra work because you happen to be female is clearly discriminatory...