Medical assistants and LPNs

Nurses LPN/LVN

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HI all,

I have just finished a medical assisting program and im now looking for a job. I have noticed alot of job openings for lpn but nothing for medical assistants. I was wondering first of all what is the difference? I can pretty much do everything an lpn can do. I was wondering if I applied to lpn positions would I be a candidate for lpn positions or would I be wasting my time? Please somebody answer my question I would greatly appreciate the advice.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

Yes, there is a big difference! The medical assisting class I took was for about two months and the skills were very basic, although I didn't see it that way at the time. I was in an LPN program in a community college that offered a bridge program to RN, so, the requirements were to take most of the same pre-requisites as the RN students. Taking college level anatomy versus what I learned in CNA and Medical Assisting was a shocker, to say the least. Then came the nutrition class, the learning of the pathophysiology of the diseases (where anatomy comes in heavily), nurse-initiated interventions, microbiology and pharmacology is broken down much more differently and more detailed. This would also apply to the RN compared to the LPN programs.

I can honestly say that I have seen some very, very high functioning Medical Assistants. I still refer to some of the notes about specimen collection and diagnostic tests from that class, and I did see how some MAs were able to perform things that I have not in my clinic setting in the hospital. This is based on where the person practices (MA or LPN), which can expose a person to more. And, anyone will be a master of where they practice the most often. However, the nursing license verses their certification is what will open more doors and allow more exposure for most LPNs.

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

I am glad I do not live in Alaska, I would not want an unlicensed professional putting a narcotic in my IV:no: and I use to work as a CMA (got my education from a JC) before going back to nursing school. CMAs have practically no pharmacology compared to LVN/RNs...we learned basic drug calculations and classes of drugs and that is it.

Specializes in Emergency/Trauma/Med-Surg.
I am glad I do not live in Alaska, I would not want an unlicensed professional putting a narcotic in my IV:no: and I use to work as a CMA (got my education from a JC) before going back to nursing school. CMAs have practically no pharmacology compared to LVN/RNs...we learned basic drug calculations and classes of drugs and that is it.

MA training is not what it used to be. How long did you spend on pharmacology. 10 weeks of 8-5 M-f of dosage calculation, drug composition and chemistry, drug interaction, drug classification. I have been in the medical profession for the last 7 years, 5 as a military medic doing more than an RN civilian would ever do, and now as an MA for the last three. If you don't want a Nationally Certified Medical Assistant pushing your iv meds after they have been properly trained then don't come to Alaska.

This is so stupid for LPN's to think they are so much better than CMA's just because some State board is there to tell you what you can and can't do. Physician's that we work under trust us, that is why we can do the things that we do. Has there ever been a situation where you have been trained in something by your RN counterparts but the nursing board says it is out of your scope so you can't do it. You have been trained, but someone who doesn't know you says no......sounds like a limitation that is holding you back. It's not a competition. LPN's are too restricted and Alaska is not using them.....there is one program for LPN's here and it's shutting it's doors in 2010 because the DOL says there is no longer a need for them.

Specializes in Wound Care, LTC, Sub-Acute, Vents.
ma training is not what it used to be. how long did you spend on pharmacology. 10 weeks of 8-5 m-f of dosage calculation, drug composition and chemistry, drug interaction, drug classification. i have been in the medical profession for the last 7 years, 5 as a military medic doing more than an rn civilian would ever do, and now as an ma for the last three. if you don't want a nationally certified medical assistant pushing your iv meds after they have been properly trained then don't come to alaska.

this is so stupid for lpn's to think they are so much better than cma's just because some state board is there to tell you what you can and can't do. physician's that we work under trust us, that is why we can do the things that we do. has there ever been a situation where you have been trained in something by your rn counterparts but the nursing board says it is out of your scope so you can't do it. you have been trained, but someone who doesn't know you says no......sounds like a limitation that is holding you back. it's not a competition. lpn's are too restricted and alaska is not using them.....there is one program for lpn's here and it's shutting it's doors in 2010 because the dol says there is no longer a need for them.

your ma program may be comparable to the lpn curriculum but you are still an unlicensed worker. what happens when you make a medication error? what can you loose since you are working under the physician's license? can he lose his license for you?

i am not judging. i just want to understand the ways in alaska.

cheers,

angel

Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
This is so stupid for LPN's to think they are so much better than CMA's just because some State board is there to tell you what you can and can't do. Physician's that we work under trust us, that is why we can do the things that we do.
Not one single person on this thread reported that LPNs think "they are so much better" than their CMA counterparts.

I completed the CMA course 8 years ago, and I also completed the LPN/LVN course 3 years ago. Neither designation is "so much better" than the other. The primary difference between the two programs is that the CMA program is far more skills-based.

The physicians that employ MAs trust their skills, but these doctors also love the fact that they can pay MAs substantially less than their nurse counterparts. It's all about the bottom line, so don't be fooled. The MA, albeit a highly valued player in healthcare, is also more cost-effective in the realm of doctors' offices and clinics.

Specializes in Wound Care, LTC, Sub-Acute, Vents.
ma training is not what it used to be. how long did you spend on pharmacology. 10 weeks of 8-5 m-f of dosage calculation, drug composition and chemistry, drug interaction, drug classification. i have been in the medical profession for the last 7 years, 5 as a military medic doing more than an rn civilian would ever do, and now as an ma for the last three. if you don't want a nationally certified medical assistant pushing your iv meds after they have been properly trained then don't come to alaska.

this is so stupid for lpn's to think they are so much better than cma's just because some state board is there to tell you what you can and can't do. physician's that we work under trust us, that is why we can do the things that we do. has there ever been a situation where you have been trained in something by your rn counterparts but the nursing board says it is out of your scope so you can't do it. you have been trained, but someone who doesn't know you says no......sounds like a limitation that is holding you back. it's not a competition. lpn's are too restricted and alaska is not using them.....there is one program for lpn's here and it's shutting it's doors in 2010 because the dol says there is no longer a need for them.

i got curious about this trend in alaska so i googled something and found this interesting article from an anonymous poster on this website:

http://medicalassistantnet.blogspot.com/search/label/medical%20assistant%20vs.%20lpn%20career

i'm a certified and registered medical assistant. all of my experience as an ma has been in the acute-care hospital setting. there has been a trend in hiring mas in the hospitals.

when you work in an acute care setting versus an ambulatory setting such as a doctor's office, you make more. most hospital-based mas in the area that i work in make about $23 an hour. there seems to be a lot of ma versus lpn and lpn vs ma on this website regarding scope of practice and wage dispute.

it's true that there is similar training and educational background in the pathways between mas and lpns, but where mas get the administrative side of healthcare, the lpns get into the more acute care assessment side of patient care. the lpns are trained more in the direct patient care and can function under their own license.

we as mas (whether we are certified and/or registered or choose not to be) must work under the supervision of an md or rn. the role of the ma and lpn in the traditional doctor's office and clinic may be very similar, but the lpns can also listen to hearts and lungs and make patient care assessment. we as mas cannot. but we as mas do have the advantage of having both our clinical and administrative training and are a very valuable team member.

and in many situations, we are a patient care advocate and are often the first person that the patient may request (whether it's the doctor's office or the acute care setting) when they have a question. i also have seen a great phasing out of the lpns in both of the settings. mas are being utilized more over the cnas and the lpns in our hospitals, as well as often being the working majority in the outpatient clinics and doctor's offices.

whatever the future holds for them and us, we will always have jobs and be valuable. there should be no us or them. we are supposed to be team players. yes; lpns do often get paid more-but it's not that much more that an ma wage. they deserve it based on their education and amount of clinical hours that they put in.

does it make them more valuable? that depends on what type of work setting they are employed in and what is expected of them and the mas that they work with. the unfortunate thing is that no matter how many credentials we mas choose to test for and earn, it still doesn't always increase our wage.

i also have various healthcare assistant licenses (for my ma scope of practice to perform venipunctures and injections) but that still doesn't increase my wage, either. but i do make a good wage as a hospital-based medical assistant. and i believe that my experience coupled w/all of my credentials is what got me into the acute care setting.

so; opting to be certified and credentialed for various specialties (like phlebotomy, ekg, administrative and clinical medical assistant, etc...) does open up doors. good luck to all the medical assistants out there. you all obviously are very passionate about patient care and proud of your role and title.

you deserve to be.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
MA training is not what it used to be. How long did you spend on pharmacology. 10 weeks of 8-5 M-f of dosage calculation, drug composition and chemistry, drug interaction, drug classification. I have been in the medical profession for the last 7 years, 5 as a military medic doing more than an RN civilian would ever do, and now as an MA for the last three. If you don't want a Nationally Certified Medical Assistant pushing your iv meds after they have been properly trained then don't come to Alaska.

This is so stupid for LPN's to think they are so much better than CMA's just because some State board is there to tell you what you can and can't do. Physician's that we work under trust us, that is why we can do the things that we do. Has there ever been a situation where you have been trained in something by your RN counterparts but the nursing board says it is out of your scope so you can't do it. You have been trained, but someone who doesn't know you says no......sounds like a limitation that is holding you back. It's not a competition. LPN's are too restricted and Alaska is not using them.....there is one program for LPN's here and it's shutting it's doors in 2010 because the DOL says there is no longer a need for them.

I have not seen any LPN here state that we are superior to CMAs. I have seen many high functioning ones, and I have also seen MANY Army Medics function well beyond civilian RNs based on their combat duty. However, once here on land, they are not licensed. I do think that based on the training of medics, they should be able to challenge NCLEX-PN after taking some of the program, but the US government has not allowed this to happen, and I think it is unfair. Unfortunately, not all medical assistants can move to Alaska. I am not competitive to MAs, I was trained as one myself. There was a difference in the training, though...far different than what I thought it was.

We do have to work under a scope of practice because we do answer to the BON of our state. It may be the same for certain MAs, that they are trained in school to perform certain things, but depending on the facility or physician they work for, they may not be allowed, either to operate to their fullest educational capacity.

No one here is making a war between MAs and LPNs. The facts are simply that CMAs are not licensed by any BON, and all of the comparisons in the world do not change that.

Specializes in Wound Care, LTC, Sub-Acute, Vents.
i have not seen any lpn here state that we are superior to cmas.

yeah, i did not see anyone here that said that lpns are superior or better than mas. the concensus was that mas do not hold a license.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
yeah, i did not see anyone here that said that lpns are superior or better than mas. the concensus was that mas do not hold a license.

and, that is the reality... the bottom line. this is everywhere, actually. i have seen some cnas, lpns, and even housekeepers have it more on the ball than some of the more careless, unscrupleous rns, but the bottom line is that even we, as lpns do not hold the rn license, therefore, for us to get recognition (those of us that choose not to move up), we have to use unique talents and for some a bit of humility and knowledge to receive that recognition. this is not a bash on rns, either, by the way-just that we may be nurses as well, however, we don't hold their license. what this has shown me over the years is that one cannot discount a person because you never know who will be there to remind you of something that needs to be done, or to watch your back. sometimes, it is the people who are being 'ignored or overlooked' when the bigwigs are making rounds that will pull your coat tail. help you out, see something you need to know about. that is where the teamwork and respect come in.

i also believe that you made a valid point-what does happen to the physician who delegated a part of his responsibility to someone and they make a mistake...a grave one??? i often wondered with the situation of medical assistants. if they do not have a regulated licensing or certification that is nationwide, then, this can mean that this person can become employed elsewhere and continue to do the same. it does not seem that they can become certified by recipocacy (did i spell that right?), so, who is really liable? i remember a situation once where a woman reported that she had a positive ppd a few years ago, and our doctor decided to order a cxr and redid the ppd. when i read it, it was negative, no induration, but she had a red mark that was 20mm. i asked her when she went to her provider in the private office, who read it. she said "his nurse" and immediately, i suspected that it was probably an ma that was not trained by a vocational school who would have told her that redness does not equate to a positive ppd. i also know that there are many cmas are very savvy and would have made the proper measurement, but there are also those that may not. her primary physician probably did not assess it himself, and took her word.

can the same thing happen if it was a nurse (may it be lpn or rn) that didn't care? sure, it can. but, that licensed person would have been more liable for the error than the ma would, and that doctor would have been liable if a more dangerous situation occurred, because he was the licensed person and he should have assessed it, and her skills, himself. that is all we are saying...not that we are better or superior.

It is interesting you should say that because if you look at the Dept. of Labor Occupational Statistics the training components are the same. Also HPSO- Health Professionals Service Organization that has been in business for over 25 years offers malpractice insurance to Certified Medical Assistants. The certification is treated just like the liscensure. It's a national third party test given for competency. CMA programs have clinical rotations just like LPN students do. If an Honest Objective look is taken at the two professions the only difference is the regulatory board. The state nursing board covers LPN's and the state medical board covers MA's.

I don't know what the big pinch is in the nursing community about CMA's. In Alaska there is ONE nursing program for RN's one 2 yr and one 4 yr at the university. With the lack of nursing instructors they allow 30 students each program twice a year. This has created a greater need for medical professionals. MA's are filling the gap for the RN shortfall.

I am not saying that one is better than the other I am simply stating that CMA's with a physician that trains them can do MORE than and LPN in some states, specifically Alaska. I have administered narcotics IV, per a doctors order and according to the state nursing board here a LPN can't do that. And we can administer medications as well as dispense them under the physicians order in Alaska. It does vary from state to state, but here we are allowed to by law.:twocents:

Ok I'll bite. A big part of the issue with the MA/CMA role is that it is not uniform through all states. You say that in Alaska there is no difference in the training/education of an lpn vs a medical assistant. I'm not going to argue with you even though I have SERIOUS doubts about the validity of that statement. However, even if it is true up there, it is not true in most if not all other states. An LPN is nationally licensed and the educational preparation for practical nurses is standardized to include minimum clinical hours and standards of education in appropriate facilities with accredited schools of nursing that allow the student eligibility to sit for a national licensing exam. This ensures at least minimum safe practice standards are ingrained into any person earning that license. This is not true for MA/CMA schools. Out where I am at, the level of the classes are different, the length of time of the education is different and you are not even required to get certified. Not to mention the fact that there are medical offices out there that will hire you as a medical assistant without any sort of formal training. I would wager to say that you are being taken advantage of royally if you are performing nursing related duties without the proper education and training and thus are probably making far less than you should. There is a reason that the boards of nursing are strict regarding what the nurse state practice act should include. Patient safety needs to come first. Not to sound harsh, but I doubt anyone here is impressed that an MA is giving IV narcotics and other medications. Giving the drug and just skating by without a poor outcome is never a good idea. Sure you may never run into trouble. That isn't the point. I'll bet you 60-70% of what walks into the local med office or ER could be "diagnosed" by a seasoned nurse too. Doesn't make it a good idea. :banghead:

Specializes in LPN.
An LPN is nationally licensed and the educational preparation for practical nurses is standardized to include minimum clinical hours and standards of education in appropriate facilities with accredited schools of nursing that allow the student eligibility to sit for a national licensing exam. This ensures at least minimum safe practice standards are ingrained into any person earning that license. This is not true for MA/CMA schools. Out where I am at, the level of the classes are different, the length of time of the education is different and you are not even required to get certified. Not to mention the fact that there are medical offices out there that will hire you as a medical assistant without any sort of formal training.

Yes, it is like that where I am too. Certification for MA was optional at the time I worked as one. I did not choose to be certified since I had no reason to be. It made me no more or less employable than any other MA, and I never had a problem finding a job with only a diploma from a vocational school.

Schools in my area vary greatly in quality, though that is something I didn't really notice until I was working in the field and meeting other MA's. For instance, one school was a 7 month-long program with classes 4 days a week. Another school was a 9-month program with classes 5 days a week. There really are no standards for what you learn since there is no national or even state-wide regulations for MA. Education levels vary even by what school the MA attended. I'm all for standardization of MA schools and requirements, since it would bring greater respect and clear-cut responsibilities for MA's, as well as hold schools accountable to meet certain criteria in length and type of education they provide. I don't believe this has happened, though.

LPN schools are all quite comparable. All LPN schools in my area are 1 school year long (after prerequisites), all seem to have very comparable NCLEX pass rates, and of course the state licensing process itself ensures a certain reliability and standardization of the field. If someone says they are an LPN, one can look up the state scope of practice and determine exactly what this person is qualified to do and what they cannot do. If someone says they are an MA, it could mean whatever they want it to mean.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

I took a six week medical assisting course for two months, one day a week for $299. I got plenty of jobs, because I had nursing assistant and phlebotomy certification. I had jobs at many agencies and got paid a decent sum of money, but that was more for my other certifications that gave me experience. Others paid well over $15,000 for 6-9 months and did not find suitable employment.

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