Eliminating LPNs - are hospitals doing this?

Nurses LPN/LVN

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Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
Originally posted by sbic56

Just a point to ponder. Why should nurses be the only profession that enjoy a middle level position as a professional with only 1 year of education? This is in no way meant to be a slam to LPN's. I was one for 13 years and felt "forced" to go for my RN to stay employable in my field (OB). Still, an associates degree requirement for entry level seems to be the way of the future for nearly all professions, so why not nursing? We live in a time where education is highly regarded and seen as necessary to performing our particular jobs to the best of our abilities. Sometimes you just have to give up the ghost.

Taking 60 credits and 2 years here.

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

In my own eyes, once i complete my program in June of 2004, i will be professional, knowledgeable, and educated in my field. Even if that's "justa" to people.

I'll go for my ADN the following fall, then for my BSN at least. But by then i will be well aware of what it was like to be an LPN and have people tell you to your face that you're not professional because you don't hold a college degree. And i'll never do that or think that about anyone, because the program i am in now is notorious for being beyond "survival of the fittest" and is an excellent program, and i'll respect anyone who had the brass to complete it.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD

3,779 Posts

Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.
Originally posted by ainz

I am not minimizing the work that LPNs and nursing assistants do, not by any means. These tasks are necessary for the comfort and health of our patients. Just that we should, in a sense, reclassify and rename the various positions to distinguish professional nurses from technical nurses or health care workers. The term "nurse" would be reserved for those who have put forth the effort and successfully completed the education and licensure requirements. I know people are passionate about their work and many LPNs will take offense to what I am saying as if I do not recognize the value and contribution they make to patient care.

a.) The term "nurse" is already reserved for those who have put forth the effort, as mandated in each state's laws and scopes of practice. I have successfully completed licensure requirements in my state to be an LPN. The "N" meaning nurse, not nursing assistant. I personally don't take offense to what you are saying, because basically I feel as though you are not knowlegeable about what I do as a nurse, or what I know as a nurse. That being said, how can you recognize our value as nurses?

ainz

378 Posts

I can say I recognize the value of an LPN after 24 years in healthcare and many many of those working side-by-side with LPNs taking patients on busy medical surgical floors, emergency department and critical care areas. I can say that because of my years as a nurse manager interviewing, hiring, and managing many LPNs. I can say that as a former director of education orienting and conducting continuing education classes for many LPNs. I can say that now as an administrator of a hospital that still utilizes LPNs.

Again, for nursing to be elevated to true professional status, we must clearly define the single path of education and licensure it takes to earn the right to be called a "nurse." It just so happens that in most professions in the USA this requires a higher level of education than 1, 2, 3, and in many cases more than 4 years of college. I don't think any of us set those standards but rather have inherited them and that is simply reality, like it or not.

I can do many things a physician can do as far as technical skills and I can learn to do many more things a physician can do. Nurse practitioners have demonstrated that nurses can be trained to do nearly all of the things a primary care physician can do. However the fact remains, if you want to be called a medical doctor you have to go to medical school and there are no 1, 2, or 3 year programs for various entry levels. There is one single path that is required to become an MD.

azgirl

152 Posts

I have worked with LPN's who held Masters degrees in psych. It was frustrating for one when RN's looked down on her because she was "only" an LPN. Also have worked with one CNA with a Masters in teaching.

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

It's frustrating at any level to be looked down upon. There are some people that think part of their 'entitlement' upon licensing is to treat others like their peons.

Extremely frustrating to know you worked very hard to get where you are and there will always be the one that see you as less than zero because you didn't get a college degree. Luckily the floor i work on, everyone recognizes and respects each other, no matter what level or nursing education they have completed. That's the kind of co-workers i like.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD

3,779 Posts

Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.

So then in that line of thinking, we should get rid of NPs too, right? Or, we should all have NP degrees, since there should be no variation, right? When you stated previously that LPNs should be considered nurse's aides (thus making a correllation between the 2), it appeared that you thought they held the same disciplines. Maybe the LPN scope of practice in your state is narrower than in KY?

What if there were a compromise, such as having national standards for licensure as opposed to them being different in each state? I could understand that. What I'm not getting, is that you are attempting to define "nurse" and stating at least in part that this could be done by eliminating LPNs and ASNs. Both of whose scopes of practice are varying from state to state.

If you are saying that this is part of the problem, I agree.

Do I think BSNs are being dragged down by ASNs and LPNs merely by being lumped in with them- no I don't, seeing the wage margins and employment opportunities of BSNs are the best they've been in years.

Nurse89

112 Posts

Oh, this again...wonder who initiated it all back up again.

So, now the focus is on eliminating Associates degree NURSES as well as Licensed Practical NURSES? hmm,,, are you suggesting maybe we "keep" the NURSES we have now and initiate this in the future? Or just eliminate all the ADN's and LPN's who are currently Licensed asap? Awaiting your response

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

Now i'll unsuscribe this thread, the original subject matter was pertaining to LPN positions being eliminated from facilities, and a question if it was going on in other areas as well. It's strayed, i'm partly at fault for it, but i refuse to continue to read or post along the line of "this is better than that" when that's not the reason why this thread wasstarted in the first place.

Nurse89

112 Posts

I agree, this thread has gone way off topic many many times.

We might need a forum for "change and all the other topics" that have been posted here.

I have never posted on this thread because I thought it was inflammatory pretty much all along. So now I, too, have contributed, if only to express my opinion, and to ask...that if it this topic of discussion is so very very crucial and is brought up again and again by the same ppl, what "exactly" do those who feed into this propose should be done?

sbic56, BSN, RN

1,437 Posts

Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.

It's too bad that anybody becomes inflamed over this discussion, but I totally understand why. I hated being looked down on when I was an LPN working in a hospital, but receiving such recognition when became an RN was nearly as annoying. It was as if all of a sudden I was a real nurse. So what had I been for those 13 years prior as an LPN then? I learned very little in the RN upgrade program, but I am now making around $7 an hour more for performing in nearly the same capacity as I was as an LPN, so that helped me get over my disgust. ;) Like I said, I went on to get the RN for job security in OB, but I got alot more than that. Peace of mind. Looking back, I say to myself, "What took you so long, girl?!"

healingtouchRN

541 Posts

Specializes in Cardiac/Vascular & Healing Touch.

we don't have LPN's in my CCU but I know I love the one's on our step down floor, we really do have respect for each other. :kiss

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