Eliminating LPNs - are hospitals doing this? - page 4
Hello All, My mother is an LPN at a major women's and children's medical center in Honolulu. Recently the hospital announced that it may eliminate the LPN position throughout the hopsital in the... Read More
Aug 18, '03Originally posted by ERDIVA2B
In Florida LPN's are able to do IV starts as long as they have their IV Therapy Certificate required by the state and most hospitals to practice in Acute Care Areas, able to do Daily assessments, not the Initial or Discharge. They can help in formulating a plan with the RN, Can do IV push meds as long as cosigned by RN and also hang blood with an RN. I was an Lpn before I finished my RN and I worked in Telemetry.
A hospital I worked at had a great idea of Team nursing, a great way to utilize LPN's. A RN, LPN, and PCA comprised the team and had a group of patients to care for. It works wonderfully and helps alleviate the shortage crunch. The RN does the admission, initial assessement, discharge, care planning, also assisting the LPN in Meds as needed, the LPN mainly does Meds, treatments, with the PCA helping her who is trained in Phlebotomy, and EKG.
The hospital I work for now has a Special Unit that has a Nurse Practitioner and all LPN's on that floor. It works well so far. It is a special Medical Floor. Hopefully hospitals across the country and State boards of health will re-examine the role of LPN in the healthcare delivery system. They are an invaluable part of the team. My hospital did not hire new LPN's until last year, and kept only the ones already employed but look at them now!
I just find it so amazing how it differs fron state to state. i find louisiana to be like Florida in many ways too.
The Louisiana State Board of Practical Nurse Examiners (LSBPNE) has no "laundry list" of tasks/skills an LPN can perform. Such lists tend to LIMIT practice. Scope of practice is a fluid concept. It changes as knowledge and technology expand. LPNs must possess the knowledge, skill, and ability to perform their duties, therefore, scope of practice comes down to the competency of the individual LPN.
Following are some of the tasks (those most frequently inquired about) an LPN may perform when the above conditions are met (NOTE: THIS LIST IS NOT INCLUSIVE OF ALL OF LPN PRACTICE AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO DEFINE OR LIMITPRACTICE):
I think its wonderful how they use the LPN here and they are all over here whether its hospital, LTC etc.
Aug 20, '03Well, lets see, in MASS., were I live they have done that. The
hospital that did it gave all the LPNs free education for 5 yrs
to get their RNs some did some did not. The ones that did
not they allowed to stay and be CNAs. That hospital has
the biggest nursing storage were I live. Now that RNs
are paid much better. I would love to know how any one
floor can support 4 RNs making between 30-35 dollars
an hour. I know of several hospital that work 2 RNS,
2 LPNS and 2 CNAS. Everyone has their own set of jobs
( RNS-assessments, admissions, charts LPNs-meds, txs
secondary assessments CNA-personal care and asst)
this works really well, know one is overworked. AND
MOST IMPORTANTLY the cost is kept down. Everyone
knows their job and it is really team work. Also when
things like this happen I would love to know where
the RNS are who we support
Aug 20, '03LPN's are being phased out of a lot of acute care hospitals. I do not believe this is because of greedy hospital administrators.
Instead I think it is done in order to meet the ever increasing & sometimes impractable demands placed on hospitals by JACHO.
Their standards are strict and regulations make it difficult to meet without placing extra demands on the RN's. It gets so complicated, it is easier not to have LPN's than to try to meet the regulations.
LPN's are and will remain in demand in doctor's offices and LTC, but if your heart is really set on working in a hospital for years to come, I would suggest getting an RN if at all possible instead.
Oh, I work in Florida too but our LPN's are never allowed to do IV push meds under any circumstances and do not hang blood. I'm not sure if those are state regulations or if it is just the particular hospital's policy.
Aug 21, '03Just a point to ponder. Why should nurses be the only profession that enjoy a middle level position as a professional with only 1 year of education? This is in no way meant to be a slam to LPN's. I was one for 13 years and felt "forced" to go for my RN to stay employable in my field (OB). Still, an associates degree requirement for entry level seems to be the way of the future for nearly all professions, so why not nursing? We live in a time where education is highly regarded and seen as necessary to performing our particular jobs to the best of our abilities. Sometimes you just have to give up the ghost.
Aug 21, '03Originally posted by rdhdnrs
We did it on the L&D unit I work on....and now we're getting ready to phase in LPNs as techs instead of the unlicensed personnel we have now. We have one long-time employee who is an LPN and the extra knowledge is very helpful to her in her job as a tech. I'm looking forward to having them.
Aug 21, '03Originally posted by sbic56
Just a point to ponder. Why should nurses be the only profession that enjoy a middle level position as a professional with only 1 year of education? This is in no way meant to be a slam to LPN's. I was one for 13 years and felt "forced" to go for my RN to stay employable in my field (OB). Still, an associates degree requirement for entry level seems to be the way of the future for nearly all professions, so why not nursing? We live in a time where education is highly regarded and seen as necessary to performing our particular jobs to the best of our abilities. Sometimes you just have to give up the ghost.
Aug 21, '03In my hospital we have one floor that uses LPN's with the RN as charge. They are our Progressive Care Center and our Inpatient Rehad unit. Many times on all the other floors the RN's have only one of two aides on dayshift, maybe one on afternoons and usually none on nightshift. Lets just say that we are loosing alot of good nurses. It makes me sick when a hospital cannot be fully staffed bucause of the "budget". Where do they go first? Patient care. They should start with administration instead of those that are directly involved with patient care. Heck our secretaries have secretaries, but they are eliminating more and more LPN and Aide positions.
Aug 21, '03lgflamini
Excellent point you bring up about the credits. What that tells me is that the whole system needs to be revamped. Now I feel like I have rec'd a measly ADN when I have actually almost* earned a BSN.
Does it really seem right that the average 180 credits need for a BSN is just 60 or so more credits than a 2 year ADN? Don't you think something is really stinking here? I do!
* When I went on to upgrade only 24 of my credits were "transferrable" from my LPN program. I think maybe now that may have changed in most places, hopefully. What was "wrong" with the other 40 credit hours. Hmmm.
Aug 21, '03Originally posted by lgflamini
Because an LPN earns 56 credit hrs in that year (at least I did), and most general associate degrees require about 60 credit hrs. So, a mid-level employee with a 60 credit associate degree could be comparable to an LPN with 56 credits, right? That year in LPN school is much more intense than a year in a liberal arts program.
Aug 21, '03I am not aware of professions allowing the entry level to be associate degrees as a wave of the future. Perhaps I am uninformed or maybe my idea of a profession is different, wrong, or out of date. I see professions as physicians, dentists, architects, lawyers, and others that work independently and are self-regulating to some degree. They usually do not have supervisors as we are used to but have a very high degree of autonomy and also require a much higher level of education to get into the field.
I started in nursing with an associate degree because it was economically convenient for me after serving in the military. I later went back an earned a BSN and then an MSN. After being in the field for some time now and observing the way things have been going in healthcare etc., I am inclined support the idea that a person practicing as a "professional nurse" should have a minimum of a BSN. Perhaps the ADN can be called a "technical nurse." ADN nurses do some excellent care and it is very difficult to find any real differences in practice between an ADN and BSN graduate.
The real issue is that having all of these levels of edcuation and all being called a "nurse" has been and remains to be a problem for the advancement of nursing as a true profession. It is difficult to hold such a "profession" in high esteem and really consider it a true profession when it only takes a year of education to enter the field. I will be so bold (and probably unpopular) to say that I think the LPN program and license should be completely eliminated OR the education to become an LPN should be identified as a nursing assistant.
If nursing continues to hold on to the way things are now we will never advance. Ideally it would be best if one obtained an undergraduate degree in "pre-nursing" and then went to nursing school after being accepted, however, real world economics are preventing this from happening.
We simply have to elevate our educational standards and requirements if nursing is ever going to gain the respect, status, recognition, and compensation that it deserves.
Sorry if these remarks offend anyone but if you want to be a nurse please obtain at least a BSN and be willing to make the commitment of time, effort, and money that it takes, much like physicians or attorneys or architects etc. must also do.
Aug 21, '03Originally posted by sbic56
What degree will you get after the 18 months?
AS far as going to become a RN u can use the credit toward your BSN or ADN, for the BSN, u have to at least worked for 1 year, u take some Credit by examinations and if u make 74 or better, u don't have to take those classes, but id not u take the class, U can also get credit through National League for Nursing Profile Exams. And if u manage to pass all the exam with out failing, u can start as a 3rd year nursing students, if not u take classes u need, until u can
The ADN program just require to take all the pre req- (12 hours), then wait to get accepted once u have u take a class in the summer , than u finish the last year with 2nd year students, so really i think u can finish this in 1.5 years
I am not sure which route i would go, i am almost a senior in a Sociology major so i have a lot of liberal art etc and all that extra stuff i would need, but , i still don't know