Is this normal management or just my floor?

mpccrn, BSN, RN · Sep 3, 2008

rules should be rules, regardless of title or position. :smokin:

RN1989 · Sep 3, 2008

Until you are in management - you have no idea what the manager does. To you it looks like she is sitting on her butt but coming from personal experience - just because you are sitting somewhere does not mean you actually are not doing work. There are a lot of things that managers do behind the scenes that you never know about.

As far as the non-compliant agency nurse.....your manager probably has her hands tied and cannot do anything. If she does, the nurse will refuse to come back and then ya'll would be screwed for staff. Can't tell you how many times I had problem staff but admin would not let me correct the situation - much less discipline them - because they were afraid of getting a bad reputation or not being able to get any other staff to work there.

Everybody and their dog wants off. Sometimes it just isn't possible. When the manager is looking at scheduling, patient safety has to come first. It isn't right not to let staff off but what else do you do when admin will not allow you to get in replacements?

Sorry, but I don't think you have the full picture here. If you ever get to be in management you will understand. Your scenario is one of a hospital wide/admin problem. Your manager is probably just trying to get along the best she can with what she is given to work with.

Don't take it out on the manager - think a little higher. And yes, there are many hospitals like this.

PICNICRN, BSN, RN · Sep 3, 2008

I do agree with ya RN1989....... everything you said. Management has many reponsibilities to keep the unit running smoothly and assuring pts are given safe care. So just because this person is sitting we cannot assume she/he is doing nothing.

And as for the agency nurse and time off her/his hands probably are tied! The problem is that this does not make it right! We all deserve to actually use our time off and receive our breaks and so forth. I'm afraid that nurses will continue to leave the bedside in mass numbers until working conditions like this are not the norm. And, again, your right---- totally above this assistant/nurse managers pay grade to fix a problem that is so very broken most likely hospital wide.

I wish I could say that I had a solution to this widespread problem- it is just so frustrating for all of us to work in conditions such as the OP describes- staff and management alike.

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Sep 3, 2008

Is this normal?

No, it's not "normal".

You're predicament sounds eerily similar to my old job - a soul destroying, life sucking, toxic waste dump.

We have a agency nurse who refuses to carry a phone with her. I told the asst. manager that it is boloney that she won't carry a phone and she snapped at me "Raindrop, I'm just happy to have her here. What, am I supposed to tell her she can't come back if she doesn't carry a phone. Do you realize how busy WE would have been if she didn't come it to help, WE would have been running around like our heads were off."

"Different strokes for different folks." Yeah! Way to make you feel appreciated for being "only" a Staff nurse :rolleyes:

I put in for time off 7 weeks in advance. A Monday and Tuesday. I was told I didn't get those days off.....that typically, if you want time off you have to put it in at least 8 weeks in advance. I grioed about that..and the asst manager stated....I have over 200 hours of PTO and I rarely get to use them...HaHA. I took that comment as if, PTO is a privelege....?

A personal event was coming up. The date was fixed and everything was in place.

I put in my PTO request eleven months in advance.

No, I'm not joking.

ELEVEN months... in advance. I even gave them specific timetables.

Guess what happened?

The week prior to my departure, the Charge Nurse suddenly dumped the whole 'we have noone to cover for you' problem on my head.

Hellllooo??? Since when is THAT MY problem?? I've earned my time off - it's your responsibility to find coverage. I mean, there's a reason I'm Staff and you're Management!

They expected me to cover my shifts right up to the day of my departure! Thankfully, my co-workers on nights and eves chipped in and helped me out - but the whole experience left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I mean... that's just 'scratching the surface' if you know what I mean!

Raindrop: all I'm trying to highlight is that some times management doesn't really give a rat's behind about your welfare - no matter how much of an exceptional employee your might have been.

Today, I have a much more stressful job compared to my old one - but management is much better as regards treating employees. I like it here.

Food for thought.

cheers,

Ahhphoey · Sep 3, 2008

I agree to a certain extent with picnicrn and rn1989. You really have no idea until you are in management what they are doing. I had aspirations of going into management, but when I went from a staff level position to one of more supervisory (no even management), I realized management is a extremely hard job that I do not want to do at this point anyway. Unit managers catch flack from all ends-administration, staff, ancillary departments, patients and families. On top of that they still must run the business side of the unit as far as payfoll, budgeting, and purchasing books and equipment for the staff to use.

On the other hand, as far as the agency nurse thing, I think rules need to apply to everyone and not just those willing to follow them. When you allow some people to get away with some things, you end up losing the respect of others who then decide they are only going to follow some rules. This could potentially make for an even worse situation.

On the situation about the days off, unless someone else requested them off first and there is absoulutely no way to cover those shifts, I think the manager should have made all efforts to honor those requests. It's little things like that that keep the staff happy and boosts retention. Of course not every request can be honored every time, but effort should be made to honor them as much as possible.

Ahhphoey · Sep 3, 2008

Oh, by the way, from your description, your unit does not sound like the norm. I've worked on floors like that, but I've also worked on great floor where even if you were short-staffed, the whole team approach (including the manager), made things a lot easier.

oramar · Sep 3, 2008

I've been at my job for 3 months now on a Medical/Onc unit. I had 2 weeks orientation with another nurse before I was on my own (3 12 hours shifts/week). Ok. My first day by myself:
I had a VERY difficult load. I was expressing this to the asst. manager, whom sits at the station and acts like she is very busy but she isn't. Honestly, a lot of us don't know what she does all day. She doesn't have patients....a new rule is that we floor nurses have to report off to another nurse when we go on break....not her.
I rarely get a break....and I work 12 hour shifts that normamally turn into 14 hours. I am lucky to get a 15 minute lunch.
The pallative care nurse is VERY nasty and made me cry.
We have a agency nurse who refuses to carry a phone with her. I told the asst. manager that it is boloney that she won't carry a phone and she snapped at me "Raindrop, I'm just happy to have her here. What, am I supposed to tell her she can't come back if she doesn't carry a phone. Do you realize how busy WE would have been if she didn't come it to help, WE would have been running around like our heads were off." I responded......"I have been running around like a chicken with my head cut off because everytime she has a phone call, I am running around looking for her. And I have worked as a agency nurse before, you still have to follow the rules." She didn't have much to say after that.
I put in for time off 7 weeks in advance. A Monday and Tuesday. I was told I didn't get those days off.....that typically, if you want time off you have to put it in at least 8 weeks in advance. I grioed about that..and the asst manager stated....I have over 200 hours of PTO and I rarely get to use them...HaHA. I took that comment as if, PTO is a privelege....?
Is this normal? The last hospital I worked at....in a different town...it wasn't like this. Maybe this is the norm for large teaching hospitals and my old (mid-sized) hospital was an exception? Or is this WAY off?

This sort of thing goes on all over. Why do you think so many nurses are so negative about this profession. Why do you think so many of them say they don't want their child to be a nurse. When they make post like I am making right now, they and me are accused of being negative for the sake of being negative. The profession of nursing is a noble one, the job of being a nurse sucks. One good thing about your post you do seem to be sticking up for yourself and identifying the problems. Good for you for not internalizing them, good for you.

advocateforsafety · Sep 3, 2008

This sort of thing goes on all over. Why do you think so many nurses are so negative about this profession. Why do you think so many of them say they don't want their child to be a nurse. When they make post like I am making right now, they and me are accused of being negative for the sake of being negative. The profession of nursing is a noble one, the job of being a nurse sucks. One good thing about your post you do seem to be sticking up for yourself and identifying the problems. Good for you for not internalizing them, good for you.

I agree and this is more of the norm than not. Having been a manager at one time, I know first hand that good managers can do little to fix a broken system. They have no real power or authoriy to fix many of the problems that exist on any given unit. Now, with that said most of them also roll over to the powers above them and give up the fight when they realize they are powerless. I don't let them off the hook for this, I believe they should take it to the wall even if it risk their jobs and they don't.

Nurses power is in numbers and that includes managers, that know the system is broken. If no one is willing to make the stand then we will be forced to keep enduring the crap that's been described.

Support the employee free choice act and safety petitions like leapforsafety and other laws andpetitions to bring real reform to our healthcare system and our profession. Only through organizing can we bring change.

medsurgrnco, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2008

Your job situation sounds bad, but fairly typical of many hosptal environments. Not all are like that. My current job isn't.

When I put in for PTO, I always list 2 choices of dates as I don't know who else may have requsted time off and at some units I've been told they cannot have 2 staff from the same shift on vacation at the same time. If I really need specific dates off, I request them as soon as I know regardless of how far ahead that is. At other hospitals, they are puzzled at my flexibility, esp. since I put in for the time off way in advance (2 months or so) and their policy is for much less notice.

That said, you need to watch how you stick up for yourself. You may be perceived as a troublemaker and get on the target practice list. Suggest you consider switching to another unit or getting a new job. When interviewing, ask about such scenarios in a professional manner so at least you know their stated policy on such matters.

SFRN · Sep 4, 2008

Ok this NOT normal at all. I work at a VERY large university based teaching hospital.....this sounds like a unit that is not ran very well in my humble opinion.

litbitblack, ASN, RN · Sep 4, 2008

Sounds like a toxic environment. I recently left one and am learning the ins and outs of long term care after being in the hospital for 10 years. Call in for those days you need off if they won't give them to you. Sounds harsh but hell, if the manager needs a day off they take them. As for the agency nurse, are those call lite phones or personal phones....? They need to complain on her that she isn't doing her part. it isn't your job to go looking for her just because she doesn't carry a phone. she needs to get over it. The hospital i was at, the manager worked on the floor to help out and was basically a wonderful manager until things bite her in the but then they become backstabbers. Make sure if your not getting your lunches that you get reimbursed for them. no reason for them to keep your money. I got screwed out of 170 pto hours when i left there, hmmmm how did i earn so much,,,,,never taking days off, always being there and working extra for them and that is how i got paid,,,,,by them ripping me off,,,,find another place of employment before the toxicity gets to you and burns you out of nursing all together