Jump to content
2019 Nursing Salary Survey Read more... ×

interesting--emts in the ER?

Activism   (8,710 Views 45 Comments)
by tiger tiger (New Member) New Member

7,205 Visitors; 250 Posts

advertisement

You are reading page 2 of interesting--emts in the ER?. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

fab4fan works as a Hospice clinical director.

8,842 Visitors; 1,173 Posts

I think this is the point that some people are missing...the hospitals are trying to give care on the cheap by refusing to let nurses who are ready, willing and able to work.

If we allow policies to be changed to let paraprofessionals take the place of nurses, that page will not be turned back. We already have UAP's...good heavens, what next.

And where is our nursing "leadership" on this?? Does anyone see the ANA, who supposedly has the pulse of the American nurse, protesting this move? Our profession is "coding", while they're in the bathroom fixing their makeup!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-jt works as a RN.

17,406 Visitors; 2,709 Posts

>

But thats the only one I DID see protesting the plan!! That entire report up there blowing the lid on this whole thing & arguing it with opposing concerns was written by the Nevada Nurses Assoc/ANA legislative affairs staff who participated in the task force meeting.

A states nurses association is the ANA at the state level. While ANA headquarters deals with DC & National issues, the state nurses associations, as constituents which compromise the ANA, deal with their own individual states issues. So yes, Id say the NNA/ANA leaders of that state were there & were quite vocal for those nurses.

AND THEY were the ONLY ones speaking up for them! No one else at the table had any opposition to the plan.... EXCEPT the ANA consitiutent association (The Nevada Nurses Association). ONLY the Nevada Nurses Association/ANA spoke out against the plan & with all those excellent points listed in the original post. And personally, I think they did an exceptional job of representing the concerns of the nurses who would be affected.

The Nevada Nurses Association/ANA did the right thing even though they stood alone in opposing the plan at that meeting.

Apparently, neither the ENA specialty organization president, nor the state board of nursing director expressed concerns about the plan or spoke up for ED nurses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NRSKarenRN has 40 years experience as a BSN and works as a Registered Nurse, Home Health.

105 Likes; 5 Followers; 7 Articles; 159,046 Visitors; 14,359 Posts

computer crashed earlier today while posting a response here so jt got to respond before me. my thoughts recreated.

and where is our nursing "leadership" on this?? does anyone see the ana, who supposedly has the pulse of the american nurse, protesting this move? our profession is "coding", while they're in the bathroom fixing their makeup!

fab4fan:

put on your reading glasses!

author:

from:

legislative coordinator

nevada nurses association

the nevada nurses association was invited to participate in this dialogue at a hospital association meeting held on june 27 ( meeting minutes & participants attached). nna was the only participant with concerns. ......

at the meeting i expressed concern about increasing the use of any unlicensed assistive personnel and mentioned the other current proposals of the nevada hospital association to expand the scopes of cna's, lpn's, and others in all settings and the effect that this type of work re-design has had nationwide on high nurse turnover rates this last decade. i shared the statistic that we currently have almost a half million nurses in the u.s. who are licensed--but no longer practicing in the field of nursing anymore. i questioned scott's statement that most er nurses wanted this assistive personnel and recommended that a survey of er nurses be conducted.

i also questioned debra scotts' statement that rn's could already "supervise" any unlicensed personnel and her interpretation of "supervision" vs "delegation" and the distinctions she drew about emt's not working "under" the rn's license---but that the rn would still be legally accountable for "appropriate supervision" and ensuring that these emt's possessed the knowledge, skill, and competancy to perform the nursing tasks. debra also stated that "supervising" rn's could be disciplined by the nursing board for failure to adequately

"supervise" assistive personnel. i questioned the semantics and blurring of these terms and requested that clarification of these terms be made by the nursing board. i asked if the members of the board of nursing had dialogued on this issue and determined that no nursing law changes were needed for implementation. debra said no dialogue had occured. i recommended that she speak to the board members as the position she had stated was a departure from previous positions of the state board of nursing.

the representative from the state health division also stated that the previous director of the nursing board had told him it would require a change to nursing law to implement. debra told me yesterday that she later spoke with cookie bible, president of the state board of nursing and that she agreed with debra's interpretation. debra had not spoken with the other board members as of yesterday. i again requested a dialogue with the full board for clarification. i also expressed concern that the position could cause dissention and outcry from the nursing community and confusion because many staff nurses have been told by nursing managers that other assistive personnel such as respiratory techs, ekg techs, etc.. are not the rn's responsibility and that rn's are not accountable for their practice----that the hospital itself is responsible. i also shared that generally staff nurses are not informed of the educational preparation, scope, and competancy of assistive personnel such as techs and that many nurses believe and are told that they are accountable only for nursing tasks "delegated" to lpn's and cna's. i extended an invitation for the state board of nursing to submit an article clarifying this issue for the august edition of the nevada nurses association newsletter .

at the meeting i was asked by the group to comment on any compromises nursing would be amenable to on this proposal. i stated that i was not prepared to speak on behalf of er nurses or nursing on any compromise--that i felt the nursing community and specifically er nurses needed to be informed and surveyed on this first. the group asked if nna could conduct a survey in the 10 days prior to our next meeting. i replied that that was not adequate time for a complete survey--but that i would contact as many er nurses as possible by phone for feedback.

re the ana dig

the nevada nurses association was on the scene. it is the state nurses assocations / now constituent members association(cma) that monitors activities within their state/area that affect nursing practice. each state has their legislative director/executive director or designee attend state legislative hearings and health care committees to provide nursing input into policies and activities. they report issues of major concern to ana who gathers data to see if national trend or local issue. ana will lend support as requested by the state association and work to influence policy/legislation needed on national level at that time. it's a big country to cover!

too many time's nurses think an issue is only affecting them within their hospital. that's why involvement in regional inservices, state wide meetings: i.e. yearly cma meetings and ana house of delegates meetings where nurses can gather, discuss, report and take action on issues that threaten nursing practice so you realize it's just not your hospital/facility being affected.

legislative directors further action:

i have been on vacation in laguna beach, ca but was able to leave messages and speak to several er nurses in las vegas and reno about this. those i contacted also discussed the issue with their colleagues at work and provided their feedback as well. below is a summary of the feedback so far from about 30 er nurses

think that is pretty good service to her organization!

from cathyw

i am in favor of paramedics that do not need an rn's supervision. i feel that starting and hanging iv's and giving iv push meds, inserting foleys, ng tubes, etc., that pm's are already familiar with, should be allowed. any po meds should be given by an rn, except ntg, because pm's rarely handle po meds.

i've concerns re this type of statement. nursing is not just the performance of tasks. it is the synthesis of data collection, nursing assessment, understanding of disease process, assessment of compliance/side effects re medications pt taking, understanding of need for early intervention to prenvent complication's death, when not to follow orders and how to move up the chain of command to get needed action for clients.

what too many facilities are doing is hiring assistive personal in place of nurses to minimize costs. they are not hiring them as assistive personel and doing nothing re workplace issues. historically legally and under many er policies and procedures today the rn is responsible for all patient care activity for patients under her assignment including hospital assistive personel. assistive staff function under delegation of orders from the rn therefore are functioning under the rn's license.

agree with jt's quote:

"neither the ena specialty organization president, nor the state board of nursing director expressed concerns about the plan or spoke up for ed nurses. to make matters worse, the ena local president (an ed manager) supported the plan when his own organization & membership is against it. what kind of leadership is that?"

thank the nevada nurses association/ana for being there and getting the message out! this is just one example of nurses advocating for nurses that goes on daily within the ana organization.

attention all nevada nurses:

[color] involvement/current action needed:

1. per jt:

there should be a mass avalanche of mail falling upon the nevada ena right now from its staff rn members in outrage for their "leaderships" comments in supporting the replacing of rns with techs.

then the nevada hospital association and the ambulance companies plan to put this proposal forward to state lawmakers again on tuesday, july 30th at 9:30 am at a public hearing for all interested parties to weigh in on this issue and let state lawmakers know their position and concerns, and recommendations on the er divert problem.

2. contact any all nevada er nurses you know and request they show up to express their outrage.

3. send letters to nevada legislators.

4. send emails to nva legislative chair, cynthia bunch:

bunch25@aol.com

or contact nevada nurses association

p.o. box 34660

reno, nevada 89533

telephone:(775) 747-2333

fax: (775) 747-1333

e-mail: nna@nvnurses.org

office hours: 8:30 to 5:00 pst

monday through friday

executive director,

lisa black, rn

e-mail: lblack@nvnurses.org

p. s.:

see what more this state has been doing re it's nursing summit.

http://www.nvnurses.org/nursing_summit.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fab4fan works as a Hospice clinical director.

8,842 Visitors; 1,173 Posts

My apologies; I had misundestood and thought that NNA was one of the groups that had broken ties with ANA. I should have been certain of that before I made that statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NRSKarenRN has 40 years experience as a BSN and works as a Registered Nurse, Home Health.

105 Likes; 5 Followers; 7 Articles; 159,046 Visitors; 14,359 Posts

Glad to clear up misunderstandings.

It's hard for us active ANA members who see the organization working so hard on behalf of it's members and all the activites the states are involved in constantly under attack by persons who have no involvement in the organization nor undertand the work CMA's do to portect assaults/ erodding of our nursing practice and licensure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fab4fan works as a Hospice clinical director.

8,842 Visitors; 1,173 Posts

I got a call this AM from one of the execs. of the ENA...I forget her name at the moment. She expressed great concern over this issue and assured me that this is not ENA's position, Mr. Rolfe was not voicing the opinion of the ENA, and that this will be investigated. She seemed surprised and dismayed at this development.

They have their hands tied a bit at the moment because Mr. Rolfe is on vacation this week, and they want to talk to him. She said she left an e-mail and voice-mail for him regarding this.

I got the feeling that she was sincere; she said she would be calling me back later in the week to let me know what was going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
advertisement

911fltrn works as a nursing.

2,496 Visitors; 159 Posts

Quick and to the point. IMNRN lisc. in nevada. I work er and icu and have flight experience. I will not supervise an emt or medic in the e.r. They do not have my knowledge or experience! I will not risk my liscence for hospitals that make $$$$$$$$, that they wont pay out to hire and keep R.N's. Ask me to do so and you better be able to take report cause im going home!

"i hope and pray all your dreams unfold before your eyes"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JillR works as a RN.

4,429 Visitors; 244 Posts

Not sure about any other state, but here EMT's and Paramedics are liscenced for pre-hospital and transport care NOT for working in hospitals, and even in pre-hosp and transport, they are working under the MD's liscence. When they are hired in ER's they are legally UAP's and are working under the supervision of the RN, they are delegated to by the RN. Now some ER's give them more resposibilities than others, but they are still not liscenced for ER, so they are not liscenced prefessional in this setting. Be very careful what you delegate and to who. Like someone else previously said, it is very important to know the EMT or Paramedic.

Don't let anyone tell you that they are not working under your liscense, be very careful. We used them in the ER I worked at and they were great, but they are not educated to work independantly of the RN. They are great assistants in the ER.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-jt works as a RN.

17,406 Visitors; 2,709 Posts

I sent a note to the Nevada Nurses Association executive director too. She responded that the NNA appreciated the support & that they have been getting a lot of heat & flack from the others involved for taking the position that they have taken in this issue. She was grateful to know that nurses are watching and paying attention.

I also received a reply from the UAN that the situation is being monitored at the national offices & the NNA has the support of both the UAN & the ANA headquarters in the position they have taken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-jt works as a RN.

17,406 Visitors; 2,709 Posts

Every single state in the country, plus Washington DC & the US Virgin Islands has a state nurses association that is part of the ANA. Only the union branch of just 3 state associations ever separated (Nevada was not one of them) - the rest of those 3 associations remained with the ANA. All 50 states have respresentation in the organization.

And I think the ones in Nevada did a great job on this one. I hope they get the support they need from other Nevada nurses - sending in letters, calling the legislators, etc to add clout to the position they have taken in questioning the plan to make up for the missing ED RNs with EMTs at the bedside.

The solutions to the staffing crisis should be focusing on fixing the problems that are driving RNs away in the first place & attract them back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-jt works as a RN.

17,406 Visitors; 2,709 Posts

well I guess we'll be watching the allnurses news for more on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×