I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
That's your right, I guess. I have higher standards and higher hopes for my children. If they wander into the gutter despite my efforts, at least I tried, but I certainly won't point out the off ramp and tell them it's a great spot to visit.
Would you even know if your kids viewed Media? What if they saw it at a friends house? Or if they watched it as adults? Maybe they have & you don't know.
Would you even know if your kids viewed Media? What if they saw it at a friends house? Or if they watched it as adults? Maybe they have & you don't know.
So I should just give up? Have no standards at all because they're hard to enforce? Sounds like a real plan success....
I am sure that so far, none of my kids have seen Media. I will take measures to keep it that way. My oldest is leaving for college next month, and of course my ability to control much of anything ends there. But, she and I will have a serious discussion about several topics involving sex and drugs before she leaves....and after. Because we've been having these conversations since she was 4 and asked how I got pregnant with her sister. She knows our values and expectations, and I will reinforce them, but also acknowledge that from now on, she has to make these decisions for herself. But I will never back off and say wrong things are good, no matter how much that pisses anyone off, including my kids. And I expect the same from them, even when they're addressing me.
Look at this cesspool of a culture we've built. I want my kids to rise above it and maybe improve it. Don't you want that for yours?
That's your right, I guess. I have higher standards and higher hopes for my children. If they wander into the gutter despite my efforts, at least I tried, but I certainly won't point out the off ramp and tell them it's a great spot to visit.
Wow. Even though I sort of kind of agree with you, this post...
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
So I should just give up? Have no standards at all because they're hard to enforce? Sounds like a real plan success....
I am sure that so far, none of my kids have seen Media. I will take measures to keep it that way. My oldest is leaving for college next month, and of course my ability to control much of anything ends there. But, she and I will have a serious discussion about several topics involving sex and drugs before she leaves....and after. Because we've been having these conversations since she was 4 and asked how I got pregnant with her sister. She knows our values and expectations, and I will reinforce them, but also acknowledge that from now on, she has to make these decisions for herself. But I will never back off and say wrong things are good, no matter how much that pisses anyone off, including my kids. And I expect the same from them, even when they're addressing me.
Look at this cesspool of a culture we've built. I want my kids to rise above it and maybe improve it. Don't you want that for yours?
If you believe your kids tell you *everything* & haven't once seen a Media. Then you may have the most honest kids ever. I know I have kept things from my parents....
I don't know why I would tell my mom, "Hey, when I went over to Mel's house I saw a Media." Especially as a teenager! And no, I have morals I am preparing my son for what is out there. I know he won't come to us for everything. As he gets older & makes friends he will start going to them for advice.
You obviously have *very* strong feelings against Media. I don't know why. But at long as it is two legal, consenting adults there is nothing wrong with it. It is just another job. You may not like it. Just like a lot of people don't like nursing. My ex-best friend hates nursing.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Look at this cesspool of a culture we've built. I want my kids to rise above it and maybe improve it. Don't you want that for yours?
That's pretty harsh. One of the great things about the US is the fact that it's a melting pot of many cultures, each with its own values. Sure, you can have your values, but that doesn't mean another culture's values don't have equal standing. (Barring illegal activities, of course.) So, while there are bad things that happen in the US, that doesn't mean the culture itself has become a cesspool.
The females I work with have no issues doing my female caths, and I gladly do their male ones. It is a team approach so we understand when we ask the other to help when they can.
I'm entering this thread late so these quotes are pages ago . . . . . when we have a male RN, this is what we do sometimes. Also, the male RN's have to have a female chaperone. And I'm in liberal wacky California!
It isn't whether you are professional or not, all that really matters is how the patient feels about it. Personally, a male nurse would NOT get to catheterize me, unless I was completely out of it and didn't know! That is just my personal feeling, however, because by nature I am reserved and a little shy. That said, I have mentioned in previous posts that I know several male healthcare workers who were fired because a female patient decided to claim they were inappropriate. This recently happened again at my current facility. The male nurses now have to be accompanied by a female nurse before they can perform any kind of procedure like that on a female patient. That includes urinary caths, enemas, etc.. Yes, the male nurses were ticked off about it, but it protects them from false claims. My male GYN always has his female nurse come into the room when he examines me.
I do believe in our world today that male nurses are in a risky place at times. And male gynecologists around here do have the female nurse in attendance when there are yearly pap/pelvic exams or in L&D when checking cervical changes. This thread is interesting because some folks seem to be saying it is all the same everywhere and it isn't.
As a Labor and Delivery nurse for over 35 years, I can tell you women don't mind male nurses performing procedures on them. I have worked with several male nurses and male OB Technicians over the years, they are all professionals first. I have never seen a female patient refuse to have the male OB nurse or technician care for them or perform a procedure. It is time to break out of your self imposed shell and perform your own procedures.
LDU4life
Again, this is your anecdotal experience and while true, doesn't mean that in other areas it is the same as well.
I think the OP has a good question - does a patient really tell the truth about whether they are comfortable with a procedure or not? I've found patients many times hard-pressed to be truthful.
I'm not a fan of gynecological exams (I'm super shy) and have switched to female NP's/Docs in the last 20 years.
I've helped out male RN's with female caths.
Anecdotal story: As a student, my first experience watching a female being cathed was by my male RN mentor - it was on an elderly woman who was clearly uncomfortable with him being there and it made him very nervous - he kept trying to insert the foley into her privy parts.
OP - I think you have some legitimate questions. I didn't get any "weird vibe".
(As to Media . . . . I'd vomit if I found my husband watching that. Lovemaking should be lovemaking . . . . not getting all hot and bothered watching someone else do it and then using your spouses body to "get off". But, that's just my opinion. My son will not get a cell phone for that reason - I'm a school nurse and we've confiscated phones in elementary school where girls have sent boys naked photos of themselves. But that's another thread. )
Spidey's Mom!!! (As to Media . . . . I'd vomit if I found my husband watching that. Lovemaking should be lovemaking . . . . not getting all hot and bothered watching someone else do it and then using your spouses body to "get off". But, that's just my opinion. My son will not get a cell phone for that reason - I'm a school nurse and we've confiscated phones in elementary school where girls have sent boys naked photos of themselves. But that's another thread. )
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Yea, personally, I wouldn't be thrilled thinking my husband is looking at Media all day, but we can't dictate to other adults what "lovemaking should be".
As far as the kids and cell phones, you have heard me rant about them over in the SN thread. My boys do have them, they are teens, I don't know what they have seen or not seen. We don't LET them watch Media, or drink or do drugs, but I don't know for a FACT that they haven't done any of those things.
I DO know how they carry themselves and treat others, and how others speak about them, and I am very, very proud of them.
I think the OP has a good question - does a patient really tell the truth about whether they are comfortable with a procedure or not? I've found patients many times hard-pressed to be truthful.
It's not quite the same thing, but when we had to do a physical exam on an actor pretending to be a patient in skills lab for NP school, we got graded on whether we paid attention to the patient's nonverbal cues. Example: when palpating the abdomen we had to keep our eyes on the patient's face at least 50% of the time to see if they winced or anything during the exam even if they denied pain. They graded us on specific things like that.
It's been my experience that a patient will always tell you if they're uncomfortable, it just won't always be verbal. So nurses have to pay attention. If a patient says verbally OR nonverbally that s/he is uncomfortable, then of course it's best to meet their needs and switch providers if possible. And of course I mean 'uncomfortable' in a psychological or emotional sense as well as physical.
It's not quite the same thing, but when we had to do a physical exam on an actor pretending to be a patient in skills lab for NP school, we got graded on whether we paid attention to the patient's nonverbal cues. Example: when palpating the abdomen we had to keep our eyes on the patient's face at least 50% of the time to see if they winced or anything during the exam even if they denied pain. They graded us on specific things like that.
It's been my experience that a patient will always tell you if they're uncomfortable, it just won't always be verbal. So nurses have to pay attention. If a patient says verbally OR nonverbally that s/he is uncomfortable, then of course it's best to meet their needs and switch providers if possible. And of course I mean 'uncomfortable' in a psychological or emotional sense as well as physical.
Same experience here while in school. And yes, non-verbal clues are important to consider. That probably comes with time and experience.
Many times I'm the nurse left behind after procedures when the patient begins to cry about whatever happened. They remain stoic in front of the doctor.
One of the reasons I always followed the doc on Rounds was I've been with the patient for hours before he/she gets there and they've talked to me about things that usually they don't bring up with the doctor. So I can gently remind them. Something happens when the doc comes in the room. Patients simply "clam up".
if I found my husband watching that. Lovemaking should be lovemaking . . . . not getting all hot and bothered watching someone else do it and then using your spouses body to "get off". But, that's just my opinion. My son will not get a cell phone for that reason - I'm a school nurse and we've confiscated phones in elementary school where girls have sent boys naked photos of themselves. But that's another thread. 
)
OrganizedChaos, LVN
1 Article; 6,883 Posts
Would you even know if your kids viewed Media? What if they saw it at a friends house? Or if they watched it as adults? Maybe they have & you don't know.