I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
I think we as Americans also need to think more cross-culturally. I do find many Americans I have met to be very exclusive, whose attitudes are: if it is not American, than it is beneath them. I think the OP was just trying to point out the background of his nursing experience, and the why behind his questions.
You seem to be arguing against yourself in this response to me. I do believe Americans DO think cross-culturally, IMHO this country is more tolerant than most others of "other" cultures and habits. How you got that I felt others' opinions and approaches are "beneath" Americans is beyond me. Never even hinted at it.
It seems like a number of responses to this thread were attacking the OP personally, rather than professionally, objectively giving experiences as to how to deal with the aforementioned situation. Also, as an outsider reading this thread, yes it would seem very much like Americans are critical and narrow minded.
I cannot speak for every single person who wrote on this thread. You directed this at ME, however, so I'll respond: mine was in no way a personal attack; I pointed out where his opinions AND OTHERS differed, and why he received the responses he got....essentially, because he ASKED for those opinions outright.
I am learning about critical thinking. In this situation, posters have jumped on the OP's thinking because it was outside the box of what they are used to. Instead, thinking critically, take a step back and evaluate the situation. Sure, this person has experienced women who may only want female nurses. It is a situation he is wrestling with personally. Fine. That does not in any way make him less of a nurse than you are. It is a different culture; it is not American. There are actually different ways and opinions of nursing in the world!
Again, you are directing toward me something that is inappropriately so. I didn't "jump on him". And the very point of my post was that there ARE different ways and opinions, and if the OP didn't WANT to HEAR those opinions.....which would primarily BE American, given the population of these message boards....he wouldn't (or shouldn't) have asked. HE ASKED for other people's viewpoints multiple times, and specifically, you seem to be forgetting that.
Then think of how you could respond to this situation outside the box. It would be more professional to offer solutions to the problem, rather than getting rid of the OP as a nurse.
I have no idea where this came from; it is not my obligation to solve a problem that IMHO isn't there. You could say even that I DID offer him "help" in the fact that I told him that asking his patients for input might solve some of the issues he is seeing. If there is a problem, IMO it is with the assumption the OP has of what every woman wants or needs without actually speaking to them. Cultural? Maybe, but again....he ASKED, I answered. You are lecturing me on it being "more professional" to offer solutions (to a problem I don't see, btw) and suggest I would "get rid of the OP as a nurse". A rather poor leap to a conclusion, since I never once suggested that he be "gotten rid of as a nurse". I ANSWERED his specific questions, but you seem to feel I should have done something else...?
I am just saying this from what I saw. If this is not the message you intended, then please rethink the way you post. I see a problem stated, but few interventions for that problem apart from what the OP has already said. I am told that nursing is teamwork; we need to support and work with each other so that everyone can function to their best ability.
My best suggestion to YOU, at this point, is to rethink and reread before YOU post. I stated exactly my "intentions", in that I answered his questions directly and without malice. If you read something into it that wasn't there, I would suggest there IS a problem....but it isn't with the way I post.
If you have comments directed toward the message board population in general, please do not address me specifically with all those concerns. I have no problem answering regarding my OWN posts, but will not put in the position of representing everyone here. And they wouldn't want that, either!
Trust me, you--as a woman--do not want to go back fifty years ago. I blush when men make rude or sexual remarks toward me. A man at a bar found out I was a nursing student and proceeded to pull down his pants to show me a lump on his groin--you better believe that made me blush and turn away. But when a patient needs care--if a patient had to remove clothing under my care--I would absolutely not blush because that would be a part of my job--to care for the human body and spirit. A nurse who is comfortable performing these procedures will also make his or her patients feel more at ease.
I blush too. No, sersly. It doesn't stop me from being in the thick of it, but I do.
This is gross this guy did this to you in a bar. I hope you told him it was syphilis!
Wow, I'm wondering if this lack of consideration to gender has to do with being 'professional' or because healthcare is now a business. I also wonder if this is an Americanism. In my time in the UK and New Zealand, there simply wasn't an issue. The guys did the guys, and the women, the women. It worked, it didn't create more work, and no on gave it any thought.
As for the other intimate stuff, we did generally get on with it.
It is ok for a nurse not to be comfortable doing something.
It is ok for a nurse to choose not to do something.
This does not make them less of a nurse.
Perhaps if nurses showed a bit of compassion to each other, the way we're supposed to be towards our patients, then there wouldn't be a problem.
I know you're going to hate me for this, but the attitude I get from the answers here does seem a bit cold. Maybe it's a cultural thing.
Professionalism, to me, is giving the patient s/he needs and deserves in a calm, expedient manner. I catheterize men, have packed testicular wounds, walk males to the restroom and help them wipe their bums. I've done the same for women, save the testicular wounds. I don't ever, at any time think "I'm a female nurse, I need to not touch that male patient in any way" Rather, I KNOW "I'm a nurse. I must do these things for my patient's well-being."
I have a daughter, now 32, who was injured at age 6. She sustained a SCI (c-5/6). She's had female and male nurses and caregivers over the years. At no time did I think a nurse shouldn't catheterize her/bathe her/perform her bowel program because of gender. So, to answer your earlier question: YES, I would allow a nurse, any nurse, to cath my 18 year old daughter. I've done it time and again. I also have 3 other daughters, and they've all had surgeries/hospitalizations for things from appendectomies to childbirth -and my answer is the same for them.
You are a nurse first while you are at work. The fact you are male should not even figure into the equation.
And no, I never could understand why women want a male gynecologist; it does not make sense. Not that there is anything weird going on......but I would not choose it or recommend that plan of action.
Your inability to understand a patient's preference does not negate that preference. It doesn't make sense to you why a woman might request a male MD? Have you no recognition that the patient may have a history with that MD, or know his record of success, or recommendations from other patients of this same male physician? In all of your experience (as a student, I see, not a nurse?) you cannot imagine how prior experiences of a female patient may lead her to choose a male provider?
You wouldn't "recommend that course of action" to a patient. IOW, you are putting your PERSONAL preferences above what may be in the best interest of the patient? In doing so, you are putting yourself first, patient last.
You read me the riot act because of what you perceived as my need "to think outside the box" (however that came into play I'm STILL not sure!) and how Americans are so frequently narrow-minded and culturally incompetent.
Yet here you are, stating you cannot possibly understand why a female patient makes a preference for a male physician.....that it "makes no sense". Since you are now learning critical thinking skills, put them into practice to try to imagine all the possibilities that may be in place to create that preference.
Then see if you'd be 100% correct in never recommending a male physician for a female, or have no ability to understand why that choice is made.
In further consideration of what I just posted about female preferences, and how they absolutely make sense to the PATIENT, I'll offer this. It's very personal, but in light of all this chatter about what patients should or should not want, I think it's important to share:
When I was young (late teens), and about to undergo my first pelvic exam, I was nervous. Very nervous, in fact, and told the doctor this. The female doctor, who was about to examine me in a country that not only was not America, but wasn't on the North American continent, was indifferent.
Here I was, an American who went to a European physician for her first gynecological exam. And the doctor could not have been more dismissive prior to the exam, and her roughness with me during the exam was actually traumatic. She walked out, leaving me in the stirrups and near tears, while an aide was sent in to tell me to put my clothes on. She didn't talk to me, she HANDLED me. When I finally was able to RUN out of there, I WAS in tears.
After that, perhaps it is not so very difficult to see why the very notion that my next visit involve a female physician was ludicrous to me? I sought out someone next time who was well-regarded, excellent reputation, and recommended for anyone young or old. And this doctor was most decidedly male.
I went. I was nearly freaking-out nervous (let's consider the patient's hx!) and this doctor couldn't have been more wonderful to me. Gentle, concerned, careful. Trust was established.
Maybe now it's not so hard to imagine why patients make choices that differ from what their NURSE thinks they should want to do? Why the "best course of action" isn't always what the NURSE imagines to be true?
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
There is no way for you to know what a patient may be thinking. Some patients simply are not empowered to say this for fear of insulting the very people who are caring for them.
Because it is available 24/7 in the pocket of almost every child and/or their classmate. Videos of every kind of sex imaginable is a far cry from finding dads girly mags.
Yes, I understand some patients don't speak up. But if OP doesn't look at the situation, judge it & ask the patient if they would like a female nurse then it's still on him. Usually body language can give everything away.
As far as Media goes, I watched it & it didn't scar me. I think if we make a big deal out of it, then yeah. But if we teach our kids young what to look at, what not to look at, what its intended purpose is for, the bad side of Media, etc. Because I know my son is gonna look at Media, I just need to be prepared. If I act ignorant or tell him not to then those are both bad stances to have.
I watched Media & I'm not addicted. My husband watches it & he's not addicted, considering he has an addictive personality. As long as I talk to him, I'm happy. I can't stop him, I can't control what he does when he's not at home. He's gonna look at Media. Most pre-teens & teens did.
That's your right, I guess. I have higher standards and higher hopes for my children. If they wander into the gutter despite my efforts, at least I tried, but I certainly won't point out the off ramp and tell them it's a great spot to visit.
RNsRWe, ASN, RN
3 Articles; 10,428 Posts
You seem to be arguing against yourself in this response to me. I do believe Americans DO think cross-culturally, IMHO this country is more tolerant than most others of "other" cultures and habits. How you got that I felt others' opinions and approaches are "beneath" Americans is beyond me. Never even hinted at it.
I cannot speak for every single person who wrote on this thread. You directed this at ME, however, so I'll respond: mine was in no way a personal attack; I pointed out where his opinions AND OTHERS differed, and why he received the responses he got....essentially, because he ASKED for those opinions outright.
Again, you are directing toward me something that is inappropriately so. I didn't "jump on him". And the very point of my post was that there ARE different ways and opinions, and if the OP didn't WANT to HEAR those opinions.....which would primarily BE American, given the population of these message boards....he wouldn't (or shouldn't) have asked. HE ASKED for other people's viewpoints multiple times, and specifically, you seem to be forgetting that.
I have no idea where this came from; it is not my obligation to solve a problem that IMHO isn't there. You could say even that I DID offer him "help" in the fact that I told him that asking his patients for input might solve some of the issues he is seeing. If there is a problem, IMO it is with the assumption the OP has of what every woman wants or needs without actually speaking to them. Cultural? Maybe, but again....he ASKED, I answered. You are lecturing me on it being "more professional" to offer solutions (to a problem I don't see, btw) and suggest I would "get rid of the OP as a nurse". A rather poor leap to a conclusion, since I never once suggested that he be "gotten rid of as a nurse". I ANSWERED his specific questions, but you seem to feel I should have done something else...?
My best suggestion to YOU, at this point, is to rethink and reread before YOU post. I stated exactly my "intentions", in that I answered his questions directly and without malice. If you read something into it that wasn't there, I would suggest there IS a problem....but it isn't with the way I post.
If you have comments directed toward the message board population in general, please do not address me specifically with all those concerns. I have no problem answering regarding my OWN posts, but will not put in the position of representing everyone here. And they wouldn't want that, either!