I remember a few years ago I got torn to shreds on this forum because I said that as a male nurse, I generally don't catheterize women. In fact all the places I've worked, from New Zealand, Switzerland, England and Australia, what generally happens is men catheterize men, while the women catheterize the women.
I made a rational argument, the most pragmatic being that men need a female chaperone anyway, so what's the point? The other obvious point was that women do not want men doing such intimate procedures on them if a female is available. The last argument I used was the fact that no male nurse I've ever known has catheterized a young woman eg 18yr old girl - neither the young woman or their mother would want a guy to do this, which is completely understandable.
Naturally, it was the American nurses calling me sexist, and stating that they would be happy to let male do such a procedure on their daughter. As we say in the rest of the world 'Only in America'.
Anyway, I feel compelled to add an update after my time working here in the Australian outback ie the middle of the desert.
The culture out here is utterly alien to the average perspective promoted on this forum, specifically in regards to gender and their designated roles. Basically, there is absolutely no way a male would be doing any of these procedures on a woman of any age, and in fact even when doing an ECG (EKG) the female patients have a female nurse do this whenever practical. In this culture, men and women have quite specific roles.
One of the most shocking things I came across has to do with the domestic fights I see here.
Sadly, the town I'm in sees a lot of violence and most shifts I usually see a battered woman, and recently I overhead two female patients talking to each other, with the first asking the second lady:
'Does your husband beat you?' The second lady looked shocked and said 'Of course not'. The first lady replied 'Then he doesn't love you.' That completely threw me. But to balance things out, it turns out the women here fight back, and I've seen more men with stab wounds due to their partners in 2 months, than I have in two years in city hospitals.
Basically it's a different world out here, and gender does matter, and if any big city nurse tried bringing their woke values out here, they would have to adapt, or not be able to function. In fact the culture shock might be too much for them.
Agree. If given the option, I’m not going to perform intimate procedures on a female patient either. Makes them uncomfortable and opens me up to potential liabilities. Since orients are allowed to choose their providers based on gender, cultural, and other identifiers, it’s only fair that providers can make the same choices when it doesn’t violate ethical codes or disrupt timely treatment.
I admire your truthfulness. You are right, many women don't want a male to do this procedure on them, especially if a female is available. I respect that, and obviously, so do you. That is admirable.
I'm not doing it no matter who says I can! And if management felt the need to get involved, they can send me home and get my lawsuit later.
We live in a culture that supersedes anything hospital policies can come up with. No matter the age of the female patient and whomever is the witness, I am not doing it!
Two weeks from the day or two years, is the patient going to feel the same? If a man thinks that a hospital waiver protects him, he's soft in the brain!
The hospital will not protect you from any future lawsuits of emotional harm etc. AND, what if the media gets involved?
People blindly follow idiots in management and cower to their so called power. facebook and any number of social media sites levels the playing field.
Plus it is plain wrong! As a medical professional you are in a position of power and very possibly maybe inadvertently coercing a female patient even if she was asked by a female to allow you to cath her.
It's not just a job where males are concerned. We are perceived differently despite what female colleagues might think. We all bring different positives to the floor and woke or sexist, insulting or not, we need to accept our genders and limitations.
Too many posters seem wrapped up in their egos allowing pride to overule their common sense and ignorance of possible legal outcomes. Having three lawyers in my family and listening to conversations around the dining table, I am always surprised at how naive nurses are! Also just how vociferous re their ignorance. Nurses need to learn that management has a different agenda from theirs and being honest, even your fellow nurses given the right climate, will turn on you voluntarily or not!
Disagree with me? Listen during down time at the nurse's station! Observe the cliques and the gossip. Even right here in this forum you can clearly see the cliques and the hypersensitivity.
Specializes in Physiology, CM, consulting, nsg edu, LNC, COB.
Point of personal preference. I had a midwife who was male, and he was awesome. I've had OB/gyn care from males and females. I don't care one way or the other. I had students in a big 700-bed SNF and had relationships c some of the residents bec I was there for several years on rotations. I had a lady who needed straight cathing every morning and I asked her if she minded if a student did them-- she said, "Honey, everybody's seen what I've got, I don't care." Males, females, she was great with them. There are, of course, cultural norms to consider; some cultures absolutely forbid a male caregiver of any kind for any woman, and you have to honor that.
Point of personal preference. I had a midwife who was male, and he was awesome. I've had OB/gyn care from males and females. I don't care one way or the other. I had students in a big 700-bed SNF and had relationships c some of the residents bec I was there for several years on rotations. I had a lady who needed straight cathing every morning and I asked her if she minded if a student did them-- she said, "Honey, everybody's seen what I've got, I don't care." Males, females, she was great with them. There are, of course, cultural norms to consider; some cultures absolutely forbid a male caregiver of any kind for any woman, and you have to honor that.
Except HB, our culture is one of litigiousness. I actually do mind cathing a woman for male reasons and I would do it except for the legal aspect.
Most nurses labor under the illusion that management or Drs are somehow smarter than us and it's easily observed during interactions. This allows capitulation and doing things we shouldn't be doing. I would never allow a woman to help take down a patient unless she is physically capable. That might be considered sexist but I accept the differences our gender differences entails. I also will not allow a Dr or anyone to bully a nurse. Being very large has its advantages and disadvantages.
Not trying to offend but women allow men to regulate their health, their identity and self esteem as if for some reason they are inferior instead of equal! Sort of like the current crop of republicans to Trump. I passionately hate bullies and cowards. I understand that sometimes you are in a weakened position but that's what your brain is for! I took the time to know my legal rights so I can get around the challenges nursing presents.
I spend the money to keep a lawyer on retainer not just for my businesses but also because of nursing! I absolutely love nursing and I am not letting anyone take it away from me! Nursing schools and BON will spout the most silly *** until they are challenged.
You have to identify what's important to you and stick with it!
When doing something like placing a foley, it's always a good idea to have another person in the room in case you need help holding legs etc. I always offer to do the foleys on women (I'm female) because I don't want my fellow male nurses to be put in a position that can be problematic. Twice, in 20 years I had female patients saying I was molesting them while placing foley. Yes, they had psychiatric problems and I was "let off the hook". But it has made me wary.
When doing something like placing a foley, it's always a good idea to have another person in the room in case you need help holding legs etc. I always offer to do the foleys on women (I'm female) because I don't want my fellow male nurses to be put in a position that can be problematic. Twice, in 20 years I had female patients saying I was molesting them while placing foley. Yes, they had psychiatric problems and I was "let off the hook". But it has made me wary.
Exactly my point. It only takes one time for it to stick and you are in serious trouble.
Management is only interested in covering their butts so you should always do the same and not allow them to place you in difficult positions. I have never worked a shift and there wasn't a female nurse available. It can even be the manager or nursing supervisor if necessary.
There are many situations where it's preferable to only have a male nurse dealing with it. So it equalizes itself out eventually.
Specializes in Physiology, CM, consulting, nsg edu, LNC, COB.
@Curious1997 You kinda lost me there. I thought we covered getting patient consent and allowing for cultural prohibitions regarding urinary catheterizations. Next thing I know we’re talking about having an atty on retainer so nobody can take nursing away from you like the big bad nursing school and BON, and how you hate bullies and cowards. and other stuff.
CRNA_SWFL
36 Posts
Agree. If given the option, I’m not going to perform intimate procedures on a female patient either. Makes them uncomfortable and opens me up to potential liabilities. Since orients are allowed to choose their providers based on gender, cultural, and other identifiers, it’s only fair that providers can make the same choices when it doesn’t violate ethical codes or disrupt timely treatment.