I remember a few years ago I got torn to shreds on this forum because I said that as a male nurse, I generally don't catheterize women. In fact all the places I've worked, from New Zealand, Switzerland, England and Australia, what generally happens is men catheterize men, while the women catheterize the women.
I made a rational argument, the most pragmatic being that men need a female chaperone anyway, so what's the point? The other obvious point was that women do not want men doing such intimate procedures on them if a female is available. The last argument I used was the fact that no male nurse I've ever known has catheterized a young woman eg 18yr old girl - neither the young woman or their mother would want a guy to do this, which is completely understandable.
Naturally, it was the American nurses calling me sexist, and stating that they would be happy to let male do such a procedure on their daughter. As we say in the rest of the world 'Only in America'.
Anyway, I feel compelled to add an update after my time working here in the Australian outback ie the middle of the desert.
The culture out here is utterly alien to the average perspective promoted on this forum, specifically in regards to gender and their designated roles. Basically, there is absolutely no way a male would be doing any of these procedures on a woman of any age, and in fact even when doing an ECG (EKG) the female patients have a female nurse do this whenever practical. In this culture, men and women have quite specific roles.
One of the most shocking things I came across has to do with the domestic fights I see here.
Sadly, the town I'm in sees a lot of violence and most shifts I usually see a battered woman, and recently I overhead two female patients talking to each other, with the first asking the second lady:
'Does your husband beat you?' The second lady looked shocked and said 'Of course not'. The first lady replied 'Then he doesn't love you.' That completely threw me. But to balance things out, it turns out the women here fight back, and I've seen more men with stab wounds due to their partners in 2 months, than I have in two years in city hospitals.
Basically it's a different world out here, and gender does matter, and if any big city nurse tried bringing their woke values out here, they would have to adapt, or not be able to function. In fact the culture shock might be too much for them.
Specializes in Community Health, Med/Surg, ICU Stepdown.
The same gender care roles I think it goes both ways. I've asked male coworkers to cath male patients because I could tell they were uncomfortable. In the PACU some men want a male to assist them getting dressed. Can be cultural or be embarrassment/shy. I never get offended.
Another element I think about is that I am a gay woman. I usually don't disclose this to patients because I don't share much about my personal life, but some patients I had for months in the hospital would want to get to know me and would ask about my "husband." I worry about ruining relationships with older, religious, conservative patients, but it has never been a problem. I think when you've been doing a good job caring for someone and have a rapport they tend to look the other way, even if they don't change their overall view.
I've also worried it might make female pts uncomfortable with me doing intimate cares on them, although I've NEVER felt anything sexual toward a patient of ANY gender... medical situations are not sexy and that is so inappropriate! But, this has not been the case either. Many straight female pts have opened up to me about situations that I would be much less likely to experience in a lesbian relationship, such as miscarriage, fetal demise, violence from a male partner, AFTER they find out I'm gay. I am really curious why. (And I know some lesbians get pregnant, I just don't plan to!)
The same gender care roles I think it goes both ways. I've asked male coworkers to cath male patients because I could tell they were uncomfortable. In the PACU some men want a male to assist them getting dressed. Can be cultural or be embarrassment/shy. I never get offended.
One data point here:
As a guy, I don't think I have a preference. Both options suck. The list of people I want handling my privates is capped at two. This list includes a representative from each of the leading genders.
Once we go beyond that list, I truly don't care about biological gender, gender identity, orientation, etc.
Ask around to guys what they prefer when it comes to getting a foley, or any type of medical activity in that neighborhood, and I suspect this is common.
OP- your example of the casual acceptance of DV in your region was meant to highlight the cultural differences we, as nurses, encounter. I think most nurses understand that certain cultures tolerate, or even endorse violence against women. But it came across pretty weird.
A couple posts mentioned needing a female nurse in the room with a male nurse during catheterization. In my opinion, I believe that it’s wise to have a second nurse (or aide/tech) in the room regardless of the nurse’s or patient’s gender.
I think it best to let the individual patients make choices that involve issues from peri-care to catheters. Certainly, culture plays a role. But, patient choice in these matters seems to me to be the highest in consideration in areas that involve these issues. I also appreciate what InHisImage just stated above...
37 minutes ago, InHisImage said:
I believe that it’s wise to have a second nurse (or aide/tech) in the room regardless of the nurse’s or patient’s gender.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
1 hour ago, InHisImage said:
A couple posts mentioned needing a female nurse in the room with a male nurse during catheterization. In my opinion, I believe that it’s wise to have a second nurse (or aide/tech) in the room regardless of the nurse’s or patient’s gender.
This is actually our policy, although not due to gender. It was part of the initiative to reduce CAUTI- a witness to monitor sterile technique and intervene if necessary, as well as a second set of hands readily available.
You told a weird story about men and women beating each other up. Then you said “gender matters.” And somehow that is all related to catheterization? I don’t follow.
Americans have their own culture, just like you have your own culture. What is normal and OK for one might not be OK and normal for another. Big deal. What is the point of this post?
This is actually our policy, although not due to gender. It was part of the initiative to reduce CAUTI- a witness to monitor sterile technique and intervene if necessary, as well as a second set of hands readily available.
This is actually really smart and deals with two issues (one indirectly) at once.
Specializes in New Critical care NP, Critical care, Med-surg, LTC.
21 hours ago, Rose_Queen said:
This is actually our policy, although not due to gender. It was part of the initiative to reduce CAUTI- a witness to monitor sterile technique and intervene if necessary, as well as a second set of hands readily available.
We have the same policy at our facility. In this past year there have been times when a second nurse wasn't available, but we try if at all possible to have two nurses at all times.
Being in critical care, most of our patients are pretty ill and some aren't aware of what's going on, but we have tried to have female nurses insert catheters on our older females that are alert and oriented. Sometimes staffing limits our options.
A couple posts mentioned needing a female nurse in the room with a male nurse during catheterization. In my opinion, I believe that it’s wise to have a second nurse (or aide/tech) in the room regardless of the nurse’s or patient’s gender.
Yep. Everywhere I’ve worked providers have had a chaperone for GU exams regardless of the gender mix. When I go to the gyn they always call in a chaperone for the pelvic exam and while I have had male OB/GYNs I primarily have had female providers and they do this too.
LibraNurse27, BSN, RN
972 Posts
The same gender care roles I think it goes both ways. I've asked male coworkers to cath male patients because I could tell they were uncomfortable. In the PACU some men want a male to assist them getting dressed. Can be cultural or be embarrassment/shy. I never get offended.
Another element I think about is that I am a gay woman. I usually don't disclose this to patients because I don't share much about my personal life, but some patients I had for months in the hospital would want to get to know me and would ask about my "husband." I worry about ruining relationships with older, religious, conservative patients, but it has never been a problem. I think when you've been doing a good job caring for someone and have a rapport they tend to look the other way, even if they don't change their overall view.
I've also worried it might make female pts uncomfortable with me doing intimate cares on them, although I've NEVER felt anything sexual toward a patient of ANY gender... medical situations are not sexy and that is so inappropriate! But, this has not been the case either. Many straight female pts have opened up to me about situations that I would be much less likely to experience in a lesbian relationship, such as miscarriage, fetal demise, violence from a male partner, AFTER they find out I'm gay. I am really curious why. (And I know some lesbians get pregnant, I just don't plan to!)