Grand Canyon University... RN to MSN/education program

LucasRN · Oct 30, 2009

Hi. How is it going so far with GCU? I will be starting December 4th. Good luck.

1996RN · Nov 4, 2009

well i'm only 1 week in, but so far so good. what class are you taking dec 4?

susanightengale · Nov 12, 2009

Thanks for your post, I have been through the program and, like anywhere else, there is good and bad. I've made a list of what I think the pros and cons are and hopefully it will address some of the "sticky" situations. Nursing school, no matter where you attend is tough but if you take responsibility for your own destiny, it likely doesn't matter where you attend nursing school. Unfortunately, at GCU, there was much stickiness to be had, but I kept my nose to the grindstone, got good grades, met some nice people and there was a terrific payoff: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE being a nurse!

Pros:

BSN instead of Associates degree

Grand Canyon's nursing programs are great for the person who wants to get a BSN instead of going the community college route. You can do as little as 20 months and be finished.

Hospital affiliation

Grand Canyon has relationships with St. Joseph's as well as John C. Lincoln hospitals; both are well respected and add credibility to your resume. If you are accepted to one of the hospital-based programs, you will be taught by nurses at that hospital and also be in a hospital environment. Good nursing jobs are scarce right now so being at one of the hospitals will help you network too, which is more important than ever right now. Remember, networking is not "sucking up" or gathering names, it is a way of gaining visibility by showing that you are a hard worker; don't confuse the two. Get to know some of the staff , many of the faculty at the hospital-based programs are nurses at those hospitals and they are genuinely happy to help you navigate your way through. Consider working at one of those hospitals as a patient care technician, patient companion. It will help you get in the program at that hospital and it will also help you get a job later. If you can't get a job right away, consider volunteering there in one of the nursing units. It is a good way to be in the hospital environment, good on your resume and helpful in getting a paid position later too.

No waiting list

There are few slots in college programs for nurses in the valley so if you don't have a 4.0 you are not going to get admitted, for example, to ASU; only because there are so few openings, there are enough people with 4.0's so that is really now the basic criterion there. At GCU you can have a lower GPA. Having a lower GPA does not mean you will be a bad nurse or that you are a poor student so it's good to be able to get in somewhere and be given a chance. Officially, there is not a "waiting list". There is a "point" system (unpublished) whereby prospective students are given "points" based on certain criterion: GPA, NET score, already employed by a hospital, veteran status. There might be others but these are those that I am aware of. Different advisors and counselors at GCU have different information. And, because this is not published, it's best to cast a wide net when you ask questions (more below on that).

Faculty

There were several, very dedicated faculty at all of the programs, both "ground" and hospital-based. In general, I find that nurses are very proud of what they do, they take their vocation very seriously and are very dedicated and want to share their experience with you. Like any school, there are good instructors and bad instructors so take advantage of the enthusiasm and experience that the good instructors have to offer. Later, remember what is was like for you and pass on some good to someone else; it can be very rewarding.

Cons:

Individualism

A good "sticky" thing to know: If you like to think for yourself, this might not be a good fit for you. Nursing school and practice stress "critical thinking" but some students confuse that with thinking for one's self. If you stand out too much, or try to challenge yourself, your classmates or (some) instructors, you may find that it is not appreciated. I've seen some students suffer retribution for acting on their own behalf or questioning policies. It's best just to try to blend in, study hard, keep your opinions to yourself and get through the program. Nursing school is hard, and in some cases, being yourself will make it harder. Just try to get along, keep an open mind: this is good nursing training, you are not going to "like" everyone you meet in nursing or agree with everything you must do but if you are open minded, it makes it easier. At first I was a bit disappointed, but if you change your attitude, and just accept things that you would previously not have, you will hopefully find that it helps you grow.

Instructors in the GCU nursing program are also discouraged from individualism and bringing their unique teaching abilities or materials into the program. Instructors are routinely reprimanded for thinking outside the box or deviating from the structured teaching style and any attempt to do so is squelched by those in charge of that particular level. Unfortunately, there is not the ability to choose one instructor over another because the program is small but this is basically the same at other programs but there are a few places where there are some options out there. There are a few "sticky" things about this: If the students encourage the instructor to alter the teaching method that might better fit the students, the instructor is then reprimanded. Because of the amount of turnover of the staff, the new, enthusiastic instructors usually get called on the carpet early on for using creative or alternative teaching methods. So, as a courtesy to your instructors, just accept the method otherwise they will get blacklisted for just trying to help. There was one level that stood out more than any other and I don't know if that particular instructor is still there or even in charge of that level. She was extremely controlling, loud, brash and overzealous and did not welcome input (very un-Christian in her behavior). She also seemed very defensive and appeared to take things personally and took a "my way or the highway" kind of approach. She says she loves teaching but its not reflected in her approach. Sadly, it seems like she could be a good instructor if she trusted the other faculty and the students just a little bit more.

In general, the emphasis is on process, adherence to rules and conformity at seems to take precedence over the objective of learning. Interestingly, nursing diagnosis and the nursing process are based on triage, or what is the most important need at the time. Learning should be the focus but it really takes a backseat to the strict adherence to the process.

Inconsistency

Be prepared, this is a REALLY "sticky" situation. The curriculum is terribly, woefully disorganized and inconsistent. And, many of the materials that are provided are riddled with error and very poorly organized. Given the high level of chaos in this regard, you would hope for some chance to correct the errors. If however, your tests or assignments, or study efforts are thwarted because of the constant errors and inconsistencies, there is little chance of adjustment for either you or future students. Surprisingly (and shockingly) many of the students that come after you experience the exact, same errors. You are expected to weed through the chaos (and at times it is truly chaotic) and just deal with it. You will get yourself into a "sticky" situation if you attempt to rectify these inconsistencies. Just accept it, blend in and grin and bare it, and your life will be a lot easier. I know this sounds bad (and it is very, very disappointing), but there is a silver lining: Its very good practice for nursing so just keep an open mind and a positive attitude and use it as a learning experience. Everything is life is a learning experience, is it not? Remember, nursing is not consistent, you have to think on your feet and use your judgment, so in many ways, going through that made me a better nurse. There are things that my peers let get to them that seem to roll right off me and I am convinced that the chaotic situation at GCU was, in that small way, of benefit to me. Attitude is everything so just embrace the chaos; it seemed horrible at the time but it really helped me with nursing, keep thinking about the big picture!

Christianity

Obviously not a "con" but it seemed an important "sticky" thing to mention: If you are choosing Grand Canyon because it is a Christian school, you might be disappointed for a few reasons. In many ways, GCU is trying to distance itself from its Christian background. You may have noticed that as time goes on, its public advertising, including its website has become increasingly secular. Keep in mind, this is a for profit, publicly traded company, and as such, it seemingly changes its image and more and more, keeps the religious aspects in the background. If a public corporation does not have broad appeal, it obviously it not going to bring in as many dollars.

If you want to experience a more Christian atmosphere, make sure you are enroll in a ground program at the school. If you are at one of the GCU hospital-based programs, you are not going to be in the same type of environment. Its obviously not that the hospital-based programs are anti-Christian, but rather that because you are there to learn to be a nurse. As such, they educate students from different schools, not only GCU, so the focus is on Nursing, not religion.

Depending on the "style" of Christianity that you practice, you may or may not appreciate the environment at the local campus. Even though this does not apply across the board, the pervasive kind of Christian thinking that is espoused there has a definite political bent. The student body is pretty homogenous, mostly all white, young, republican & "socially" conservative and of the "cafeteria" branch of Christianity (it was only recently that GCU even highlighted non-whites on their website, sadly the exceptions were mostly limited to sports). There is a lot of "but it's in the Bible" kind of comments (normally about whatever someone does or does not like) but also a generous amount of over-looked material in the Bible that gets swept under the rug if it was in the "Old" testament. Its nothing you have not come across before, all the usual suspects (homosexuality, roles of women, etc.) If you point out that Jesus never said anything about it, you are pretty much shot down (remember, don't think for yourself, if you have a different opinion, just walk away and keep it to yourself). If you then point out the stuff that Jesus did advocate (helping the poor, turning the other cheek, rich folks not getting into heaven, etc.) or challenge the stuff that (but its in the Bible!) the Bible says is acceptable: rape, incest, misogyny, racism, murder, violence, etc., you won't really be very well liked. I observed much of this, but knew better than some of my colleagues, it's better to just keep to yourself, study hard, don't stand out and focus on your goal of becoming a nurse.

Credibility

Locally, the nursing program at GCU is well respected and it won't hinder you from getting a job. It's hard to know if this might change as time goes on since they have adopted a "diploma mill" philosophy and are attempting to become another University of Phoenix type of system. In fact, much of their current structure was "borrowed" from University of Phoenix and some of the head people now there, used to be at University of Phoenix. It's a sign of the times but it is still disappointing because there may come a time, before too long, when it has the same diploma mill reputation. For now though, the nursing program at least, does not have that stigma.

Another "sticky" helpful hint: To help overcome that perception, consider attending one of the GCU programs based at one of the hospitals. That way, you can highlight the name of the hospital program in case a prospective employer frowns upon the credibility issue. Also, going to one of the hospital-based programs will help you get a job later. And, it will help you gain admittance to the program in the first place. I mentioned earlier that the information from the counselors at GCU was inconsistent. Some of them seem to be under the impression that working at a hospital gives you more points on the "point" system thereby helping you gain admittance to the program. Even though I never found a consistent answer, here is something good to consider: The hospital-based programs review the list of candidates who have applied and have some say in who is going to get into the program. If you work at one of the hospitals that GCU is affiliated with, you have a better chance of someone knowing who you are. While it might be true (like I said, I was never able to verify) that you get points for working at a hospital, if you are working at a different hospital and the list of candidates is being reviewed by an affiliated hospital, they are not going to know your name. On the other hand, if you are going to work at a hospital anyway, it may as well be at an affiliate hospital. As I mentioned earlier, you also have a greater chance of getting in to the hospital-affiliated program and the road is a whole lot smoother.

Cost

GCU is REALLY, REALLY expensive. This is NOT one of those "you get what you pay for" instances in life, with the exception of the fast pace to get through school. If, for example, you had to wait to get accepted to another program, its that much longer you have to wait which translates into that much longer that you can't start working. So, weight all the options and it could prove to be financially beneficial, you never know. The hard part to reconcile is that the price does not equate to quality. You are the customer; so one would think that you had a right to expect excellent service for the enormous cost. This was one of the more disappointing things. I was actually very, very excited to be accepted into the program but many times it felt as though they were flying by the seat of their pants. I was expecting excellence and I was willing to pay for it. Again, just adjust your expectations. Going into a situation with more realistic expectations can really make a difference. Hopefully, you can know these things ahead of time and

mathilda843 · Nov 12, 2009

What about their online programs?

susanightengale · Nov 12, 2009

Hit or miss, depending on the instructor. Still pretty disorganized so you will spend a good deal of your time at the beginning reading the "fine print". They go WAY overboard using the "Angel" program and rather than making things more organized it creates a lot of confusion. Communication is so important and since the Angel format is so fragmented, if one of the people responsible for imputing information is not completely clear then the instructor might have a different interpretation of the format or material but they also might not be given permission to resolve the problem. VERY frustrating but if you know that going in then at least you can be hypervigilant to get your needs met.

Like any class, an online course is as good as the instructor. If you get someone that does not check their email, or does not take the time to read it properly than the back-and-forth can be a pain. Some instructors just let the pre-scheduled class work for itself and don't put anything into it. For example, I had one instructor that never commented on the content of my papers but rather only if I had an error in APA style. It was personally frustrating because I wanted some constructive feedback. I was there to learn after all. You may have to find other sources for actual "teaching" if you run into that. More and more classes there are going online since they want to be a "big-box" type of school so it does not seem like thy yet have a handle on how to make a lot of money and still provide a quality program.

mathilda843 · Nov 13, 2009

Thanks for your insight. I was accepted to the MSN program online, but at the last minute canceled due to the good old "lack of funds." I'm still thinking about pursuing my MSN, but the money involved has me really nervous! :sniff:

tunagrl · Nov 14, 2009

You need to apply to Texas Tech University RN-MSN. They have been wonderful so far and are very willing to assist the student along the way.Good luck.

RNGrad2006 · Nov 23, 2009

Thanks for your insight. I was accepted to the MSN program online, but at the last minute canceled due to the good old "lack of funds." I'm still thinking about pursuing my MSN, but the money involved has me really nervous!

Do you work at a hospital in the Phoenix area? I work at St Joes and they do direct bill with GCU and if you play your cards right and only take 5 classes a year you don't pay anything out of pocket...it is a sweet deal.

mathilda843 · Nov 24, 2009

RNGrad2006,

Thanks for your reply, but I'm on the east coast...

tunagrl · Nov 25, 2009

That's ok since they are online. Good luck!!

LucasRN · Mar 1, 2010

So far the MSN program is great. Completed the first module and am now in week three of module two. Lots of papers to write and discussion questions weekly. I am enjoying the program and will try doubling up on courses starting next module (April). I hope to graduate by late spring of 2011.