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Girl Brain Dead after Tonsillectomy

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EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

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Esme12 is a ASN, BSN, RN and specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

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Every thought I have on this topic has already been posted in this thread. I am horrified by the whole thing. I can't even begin to imagine having my child die. And everyone grieves in their own way. But, come on...

My main concern is the precedent this may set. Are hospitals so desperate for "good scores" that they will start allowing families to decide when a patient is "dead enough" to satisfy them?? I still can't understand why nobody put their foot down when this whole thing started, and said, "We're sorry, but the child is clinically dead. We can't continue treatment and we can't allow you to haul her body around the country. It is not allowed." Is it that this family was so vocal? Why don't the rules/laws of medicine and decency apply to them? This sort of thing has never been allowed. Why now? Why for this family? Where does it end?

And I have to say, if the family isn't after a big payday, that uncle isn't helping matters. Isn't he the official family spokesperson? And hasn't he made several comments about money already?? He is making the whole family look as if they are after $$$.

May Jahi rest in peace.

California has a little clause in their law to allow for families religious/cultural difference to be observed and a "reasonable allowance of time" is written in to the law.
require the hospital, if the patient’s legally recognized health care decision maker, or next of kin voices any special religious or cultural practices or concerns of the patient or the patient’s family surrounding the issue of death by reason of irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain of the patient, to make reasonable efforts, as described, to accommodate those special religious or cultural practices and concerns.
Now define reasonable....add a lawyer who has been trying to get caps removed from malpractice lawsuits and you have...Jahi and her families fight.

http://coalitionccc.org/_pdf/public-policy/policy-ab_2565.pdf

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emerjensee has 1 years experience and specializes in Emergency, LTC.

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I have been pulling up recent articles the last few days and it seems that at least the commenting public is realizing that brain death is really death. The initial reports made it sound as if this 'routine' procedure left the girl in a reversible coma. However, now that much more of the facts have been revealed, its seems as if people are starting to understand the concept that whole brain death is not reversible.

Lets just hope this whole ordeal is over soon. :(

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Sponges specializes in CVICU.

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I realize that the noncompliance to post-op instructions is mostly conjecture based on third party statements and comments from the family, but...I really am inclined to believe that Jahi's mother fed her solid food postoperatively.

I don't know anyone who doesn't come out of surgery starving. That's just a given. As soon as you wake up in recovery, the first thing you want is food and I don't doubt it was the same for Jahi. And, based on her weight, I would imagine that food was something she was indulged in for a good portion of her life. I seriously doubt she was told "no" very often or given limits on what she could and could not eat. She was probably begging her mom for something to eat postoperatively (which, who doesn't beg their family members for something after going sometimes days without food?). I'm not saying that was a bad thing or uncommon. I'm saying that I find it unlikely that her mother had ever denied her food before (see her weight), so I seriously doubt she denied her food in post-op. It's very probable that she had the mindset of, "Oh, it's just a little bite and she's so hungry...what can it hurt?" I've seen that mentality personally too many times already in my short nursing practice. Family members give NPO patients food all the time.

And then, when I think about how borderline obsessed the mom has been with Jahi's "nutrition" since all this began unfolding, I am almost 100% convinced that she did feed her daughter postoperatively and, possibly, doing so dislodged a clot which began the cascade of Jahi's catastrophic bleeding. If the family did indeed suction her as they claim, what probably started as profuse but controllable bleeding likely degenerated into copious, unmanageable blood loss due to the dislodging of those clots.

The more I think on it, the more likely it seems to me. And, at this point, it's not even about blaming the mom or family because I know they were only doing what they thought was right for their family member. It happens. What frustrates me is the thought that the hospital and its medical personnel are the ones taking the heat for the family's decisions/mistakes/actions and that's not fair.

I also think that the family contributed to her demise; however, I've read that UP3's are very painful, to the point where patients will often lose large amount of weight after procedure d/t pain intensity and the length of pain and recovery (which I took to mean that pts eat less d/t pain). Are we assuming that she was medicated enough not to feel any pain when eating? I know that mom stated that she was laughing and talking also, so I guess it is possible. I just have a hard time fathom eating after such a major surgery involving mouth, throat and nose.

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thank you, I haven't worked acute care in ages....sounded a off to me, too.

I seriously doubt this. She would have exhibited a change in LOC prior to the arrest IF this was the scenario that played out and no one has ever mentioned a single word about syncope, slurred speech, lethargy, etc.

What's frustrating about posts like the ones above is that it sounds somewhat authoritative and people seem so eager to blame the hospital for negligence that they will believe such claims without reserve.

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azbluesgal has 25 years experience and specializes in med-surg - LTC-Home Health; Psych.

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I disagree with Dee76 in my own personal experience from waking up after anesthesia. Sick until I hacked all that stuff out of my lungs. Post op and OR were not my thing (too cold) but having strolled among the other boards discussing this, its a pretty done deal slam dunk that the family was culpable for the start of the fatal bleed out. The family is another matter - and this I have some experience with as a psych nurse. some aberrant form of Munchausens and throw in a sociopathic grandma and psychopathic uncle. Lawyer defies description but I think he definitely belongs in the category of UN dead himself (just a little levity). thank you

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Pepper The Cat has 33 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Gerontology.

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I've had many surgeries and I' ve never been "starving" afterwards. In fact, it takes me weeks to get an appetite back.

Back on topic though I doubt if we will ever know what really caused the bleeding. It might have been the popsicle, it might have been a cheeseburger or it might have been the auctioning. Or maybe a combination of all three.

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LadyFree28 has 10 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma.

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I'm curious to know how any of this is racist? Because someone said they're doing this for money? Because they may or may not be wrong and possibly ignorant? Racist toward what race? Black? I'm black and I'm not offended. Yet' date=' I'm educated so Nevermind.[/quote']

^5 from another black individual. :)

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LadyFree28 has 10 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma.

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The family was on a media frenzy' date=' right up to when mom became responsible for her remains. Then they went silent. Hopefully the family is coming to terms with her remains true condition.[/quote']

I really think that is what it really came down to...,when the reality HIT, they knew the hospital WAS right....they got so far into it they can't even get out of it, hence the silence.

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Well, that was my mistake, lol, speaking for everyone. I should say, in my experience, I've not seen a surgical patient who didn't wake up hungry, that includes myself and this after having my gallbladder removed due to acute and chronic infection. I was literally writhing in pain and puking up my guts before surgery. Afterwards, the first thing I asked in recovery was, according to my husband, "Can I eat now?"

In the ED where I work it doesn't matter how extensive the pain is, how severe the vomiting/diarrhea/nausea. As soon as you medicate the patient or they come back from their test, the first thing they ask me is, "Can I eat?" So yeah, I sympathize with that, but I can see that's not true for all patients.

However, I still stand by my assertion that it may have been true in Jahi's case.

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LadyFree28 has 10 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma.

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Commuter - would it be any different if the child were Honey Boo Boo. Unfortunately ignorance' date=' stupidity, and arrogance don't see "color bars" either. I can't wait for CHO to be vindicated once and for all, but that's going to be a long wait.[/quote']

I'm confident they will be vindicated. :yes:

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7 Articles; 1,142 Posts; 37,636 Profile Views

This is the most supportive article ever about the hospital and nurses at this hospital. I have also worked with difficult parents who accuse the staff of all kinds of things-- many of these parents are mentally unstable or in the depths of grief. I am thankful for this article because I'm sure, if those nurses are anything like the ones I work with, they tried to work with this family and remain compassionate and provide the best of care even when they were being abused.

There's a Second Tragedy in the Jahi McMath Story | Today's Mama

Edited by anon456

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