Jump to content

Girl Brain Dead after Tonsillectomy

News   (802,544 Views 2,602 Comments)

EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

11,805 Visitors; 380 Posts

advertisement

You are reading page 4 of Girl Brain Dead after Tonsillectomy. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

11,805 Visitors; 380 Posts

It is not so much as a took it personal and I see where you are headed. It is just not my custom, so to speak, to tell someone to shut the hell up nor do I take it very well when someone tells me to do so.

I admitted that the media helped to formulate my opinion. I sought out the opinions of people with more experience, and it gave me a new perspective on the matter. That is why I love this site. I learn so much from reading posts on here. I only want to emphasize that I never once accused the staff of wrongdoing; I only explored that as a possibility.

Thank you for explaining yourself and I do understand where you are coming from. Not being able to defend yourself is a very difficult thing to do and it takes a lot out of a person when they are going through it.

Best wishes to you.

Edited by EaglesWings21
changed wording

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2,325 Visitors; 48 Posts

I don't understand why the hospital won't give the family the copy of the medical records...? Are California laws different than other states? If the attorney for the family is saying that the hospital won't give them the medical record copies so they can take them to an independant dr (which likely wouldn't do anything, but I just don't see why they can't if that's what they want to do), then they must not be releasing them, which I find bizarre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Esme12 is a ASN, BSN, RN and specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

5 Followers; 4 Articles; 146,299 Visitors; 20,896 Posts

Here is the deal....the hospital is bound by law to keep their mouths shut. The family however is not. They can hold news conferences in the parking lot is they so choose, the hospital cannot.

Dr. David Durand, chief of pediatrics at Children’s, said in a statement the hospital wants to clear up misconceptions about the girl’s case.

"We implore the family to allow the hospital to openly discuss what has occurred and to give us the necessary legal permission -- which it has been withholding -- that would bring clarity, and we believe, some measure of closure and deeper understanding of this medical case,"

The news media seldom, IF EVER, tells an accurate description of the real events that occurred. They are representing the family in their articles because it sells news and sensationalism. They report bits and pieces of the hospitals statement because it sells papers and online hits.

I am sure this is just one of those incidences that snowballed out of everyone's control while the hospital frantically tried to save this little girls life. But, for whatever reason, they failed. While there are cases of gross negligence...they really aren't all THAT frequent, and because the hospital will pay through the nose it doesn't mean that they didn't do whatever was humanly possible to save this child life.

I have cared for this type of patient that no matter how hard you try they slip through your fingers and the whole time you are thinking...Oh, my God!, Oh, my God!!, Oh my God!!! OH MY GOD!!!! The reality of medicine is that even today...with all the technology at our finger tips...people die from complications and circumstances beyond our control. They just die...it is their time. It is this fact alone that reinforces my belief that there are greater powers at work, whatever/whoever they are, and all I can do is my very best at all times and pray for peace in the hearts of those who are left behind by tragedy.

I am sure that in the beginning that little girl said those things...Mommy I'm afraid, what is going on? The family sensed that something was amiss and questioned the staff about what the $%#*%$&$# was going on. I believe that the staff did their very best to not appear frantic and frightened. It is what we do...we appear calm and in control in times of crisis, despite all our fears. If I had a dime for the times I walked out of a patients room and thought CRAP! NOW WHAT?? I'd had a good retirement.

The hospital has agreed to independent testing to ease the families fears. Huffington Post

At the hearing later, the hospital's attorney, Doug Straus, said two doctors unaffiliated with the hospital examined Jahi and concluded that she was brain dead. But he said, "We're happy to cooperate with the judge's suggestion that an independent expert be provided to confirm yet again that brain death is the outcome that has occurred here."
To assume malfeasance on the hospitals part is presumptuous and wrong. There are not enough facts/evidence for us to make a clinical decision of wrong doing.

OP...as you continue on in your medical career you are going to find that medicine is seldom right or wrong, black or white...it all about shades of grey... that sometimes despite our best efforts bad things happen to good and young people ALL the time. It is what we do with the information and how to make things better or learn from this that counts. We also have to remember that we are humans and frail like everyone else and that sometimes there is nothing we can do nor anything we did do wrong that caused a bad outcome for those in or care.

As you grow and learn as a nurse, you will find out that in these situations the family only hears a bout 1/2 (one-half) of what is said to them. They remember only about 1/4 (one quarter) and they only understand about an 1/8 (one eighth).

They just cannot understand nor comprehend what is going on...in their brains they are SCREAMING....NO!, NO!!, NO!!!, NO!!!!.

If this was my daughter (heaven forbid!) would I want someone held accountable? YOU BETCHA! will that bring her back...unfortunately no. But that wouldn't prevent me from verbally ripping everyone to shreds because of my heartbreak and anger that I would NOT be able to bear. All of my medical training and experience would mean squat in my heartbreak.

Sadly...There is a dead little girl and her family is heartbroken....words cannot express their grief and probably never will. I pray they find some peace.

Edited by Esme12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Esme12 is a ASN, BSN, RN and specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

5 Followers; 4 Articles; 146,299 Visitors; 20,896 Posts

I don't understand why the hospital won't give the family the copy of the medical records...? Are California laws different than other states? If the attorney for the family is saying that the hospital won't give them the medical record copies so they can take them to an independent dr (which likely wouldn't do anything, but I just don't see why they can't if that's what they want to do), then they must not be releasing them, which I find bizarre.
They have agreed to an independent consultation...now the problem will be is to find someone willing to get involved at this point. Once there is a troublesome case and lawyers involved the hospital will not just "give them the chart". I has to go through the lawyers and medical consultants to follow due process for all parties involved. This is now a complicated process for all involved.

To be honest I'm not sure I smell a rat here....I see a heartbroken family and a horrible sequence of events and complications...I am not sure anyone is liable. Sure, I have questions as to what was done, or not done, and why not...but I cannot and will not make assumptions about responsibility or blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Esme12 is a ASN, BSN, RN and specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

5 Followers; 4 Articles; 146,299 Visitors; 20,896 Posts

I know we don't have a full story but everyone is entitled to their opinion, like it or not. If she had complications before surgery they should've kept an extra eye on her. Plus the comments from the hospital aren't that comforting either.
They did...she was a routine tonsillectomy they had an ICU bed reserved. She was in ICU and given blood transfusions...it is conceivable that she was never stable enough to return to the OR...we do not have the details so we have no idea. You are hearing only the families and media version which is seldom the Gospel truth.

The media are prostitutes for sensationalist news. I have dealt with them on multiple occasions and they aren't after the facts...they want news.

They listen to police scanners ad print what they want. I was once paged to the ED stat and got a stat page form the operator for an outside call (never good news)....upon my arrival to the ED it was clear that something was going on. I picked up my outside call...it was the news stating that it had been reported that an explosive device was found in the hospital, the hospital was being evacuated, were there any injuries and had the Bomb squad been notified....as I was looking at the note the charge nurse wrote me telling me that a suicidal/homicidal patient said they had a had grenade in their backpack in the waiting room...and listened to the police officer call for the bomb squad.

I calmly told the news reporter that there was no FOUND explosive device, the hospital was NOT being evacuated, was under NORMAL operating procedure (bomb threat) and hung up the phone...I said to the ED staff...What in blazes (not my exact words :whistling:) was going on???

The patient said it...there was no device found..but yes we called the bomb squad. We didn't evacuate although we asked the waiting room visitors to wait in another area of the facility. :)

Grrrr.....the news drives me crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JustBeachyNurse has 10 years experience as a RN and specializes in Complex pediatrics turned LTC/subacute geriatrics.

1 Follower; 1 Article; 99,357 Visitors; 13,944 Posts

Sounds like possible DIC which could render the child too unstable to return to the OR and yes obesity is a risk factor for DIC.

It is NOT common for hospitals to release medical records while a patient is still inpatient other than copies of information necessary for inter facility transfer and even then the full record is not usually sent until post discharge. I'm sure a full review of the chart will be done before releasing the record.

The child is dead. She failed two separate tests to determine life or brain death. She is legally and medically dead. The coroner has been called and is getting frustrated as the parent actions are impeding the death investigation. Some healing may take place before her body shuts down & starts decaying.

Just because grandma thinks pearls are going to miraculously heal her and mom "feels her smile" and "feels her presence" does not mean she is going to wake up from brain death and cardiac arrest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cardiacfreak is a ADN and specializes in Hospice.

14,623 Visitors; 696 Posts

I can only imagine how the mother feels, the child told her prior to surgery that she didn't think it would go well, I bet the mom is having regrets for agreeing with the surgery and is probably feeling guilty. I know I probably would.

I also know that the WHOLE truth isn't being revealed. As nurses we all know how it feels to have a patient going bad and sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do to save them.

My prayers go out to all family and employees involved in this horrendous situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

psu_213 has 6 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.

27,658 Visitors; 3,869 Posts

There was an incident in our ER several months ago that led to the family of the pt involved running to the media, who then printed and broadcasted a sensationalized (i.e. the family's) account of what happened. The staff members who were there (even if they had no direct involvement with the situation) had to talk to higher ups and lawyers (etc) about what happened. The family has attacked every staff member in the ED, going as far to say that all the staff was involved in a cover up about what happened--and the media has been an accomplice to it all. While I know not to take it personally, there are some staff members who are taking it personally. While they are not being called out by name, they are being dragged through the mud by the family and they are personally very saddened by the situation, and they get emotional when they see how they the family and media are labeling them.

We only know one version of what supposedly happened in Oakland. Unless you were there and actually witnessed it, please reserve judgement on the doctors and nurses who were involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

11,805 Visitors; 380 Posts

So the truth is that no one knows the truth about what happened here.

The child had complications which the mother is denying and saying she was perfectly healthy. They are grieving and looking for someone to blame which the media is playing this out well.

While medical errors do occur no one can be certain if they occurred in this circumstance except those who were there.

Thank you all for your input. I am praying for this family because they have lost there little girl and this Christmas she won't be coming home :(.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 Follower; 1 Article; 37,546 Visitors; 4,383 Posts

There was a recent news item that had the media up in arms about my facility. People here at allnurses were talking about what a horrible thing my colleagues were doing. What was reported in the news was soooooooo far from the truth it's ridiculous.

In this case, bad things happen. Sometimes it's because someone did something wrong. Sometimes it's just because bad things happen.

And I have never worked in a facility that would give out copies of the medical record short of a court order to do so while the patient was still inpatient. That the hospital is not doing so means nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Esme12 is a ASN, BSN, RN and specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

5 Followers; 4 Articles; 146,299 Visitors; 20,896 Posts

So the truth is that no one knows the truth about what happened here.

The child had complications which the mother is denying and saying she was perfectly healthy. They are grieving and looking for someone to blame which the media is playing this out well.

While medical errors do occur no one can be certain if they occurred in this circumstance except those who were there.

Thank you all for your input. I am praying for this family because they have lost there little girl and this Christmas she won't be coming home :(.

Right.

That is the real issue here.... a heartbroken family that cannot believe their daughter is gone. She may well have been "perfectly healthy" and still complictions that are known risks to the procedure can still, even in this day and age, take someones life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

macawake has 10 years experience.

72,226 Visitors; 1,101 Posts

The death of a child is always a tragedy, my heart goes out to her family.

There is obviously information missing about this case and without that information it is impossible to form an opinion of the event.

I don't know if the child had any other comorbidities but overweight/obesity is in itself a risk factor in anesthesia/surgery.

I'm positive that no nurse would ever consider a significant amount of bleeding from the mouth or nose normal post T&A.

I even use a flashlight to look for trickling blood in the back of the mouth/throat in these patients.

As far as I know, postoperative bleeding is the number one complication to a tonsillectomy and nurses watch for it.

Bleeding and patency of airway are always assessed and nurses are mindful about the risk of laryngospasms.

We don't know what happened in this case. Was the patient too unstable to go to the OR?

What treatment was initiated and why? We simply don't have that information.

As I menitoned earlier, I'm very sorry that this child's family has suffered such a horrible loss.

My heart also goes out to the staff involved in the child's care. They aren't allowed to defend themselves and have to read and hear things said about them in the media that are no doubt hurtful when there is a very good chance that they have done nothing wrong.

What are your opinions on this situation and what you would have done different had you been caring for this girl?

OP, that question is quite frankly impossible to answer. We weren't there!

We don't know the child's medical history, how the surgery went or what happened post-operatively.

Without any of this information it would in my opinion be rather misguided and actually arrogant of me, or anyone else really, to suggest a different way to manage this situation.

Edited by macawake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing 0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×