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Girl Brain Dead after Tonsillectomy

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EaglesWings21 is a ASN, RN and specializes in Medical Surgical.

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You are reading page 212 of Girl Brain Dead after Tonsillectomy. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

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It has already been established that Zack Dunlap was misdiagnosed... I've never heard of the others, but I'm willing to bet it is something similar...

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LadyFree28 has 10 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma.

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It has already been established that Zack Dunlap was misdiagnosed... I've never heard of the others' date=' but I'm willing to bet it is something similar...[/quote']

This.

After up to a month to almost TWO months of NO brain activity; with six people declaring one with NO brain activity, it's confirmed that a person is dead. :blink:

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Sun0408 has 4 years experience as a ASN, RN and specializes in Trauma Surgical ICU.

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Steven Thorpe should never have been declared brain dead, he was in a medically-chemically induced coma from the start. Once they turned the meds off, he woke. Jahi was not on sedation when her tests were performed.. These people were also days to a few weeks before they responded and or woke. Gloria Cruz, her story and the families account is very hard to understand...See below.

I couldn’t believe that I was looking at the woman I have loved for 27 years... Her face was swollen. Her hair was gone. Tubes were inserted in her mouth ... in the top of her head ... in her hands. She was lying almost lifelessly. And then this is where is gets confusing...

Tani begged doctors not to switch off her life support. A doctor, a social worker and a “patient advocate” rang him and again urged him to remove the ventilator and let her die. After two weeks Tani finally gave in to their demands but insisted that a breathing tube be inserted into Gloria’s mouth so that she could continue breathing on her own.

 

From my understanding the only testing used on Zack was a PET scan, nothing else.

 

Many hospitals now have a protocol to determine brain dead, and one test is not sufficient.

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I found this on another story. It's a posters comments:

Zack Dunlap, Steven Thorpe, Gloria Cruz, and others. They all met the legal criteria for 'brain dead', and were declared 'brain dead' by experts. Their doctors were all pushing relatives to proceed with organ harvesting. Yet they are all alive and well today because relatives wouldn't give up.

Their doctors insist that there was no mistake and they followed the procedures in declaring brain death, so it isn't medical mistakes, but an error of the diagnostic tools. Clearly we don't understand the brain as well as we think. Maybe these people who can recover from brain death are exceptionally rare (maybe not). Is it OK to bury the occasional 'not dead' person (who could potentially recover) so we don't clog up hospital beds with the 'probably really dead'? To me, that's the real question for the 'medical ethicists'.

The ethical question I find in the existance of those situations as applied to this case is why every neurologist worth their doctorate has not risen up in disgust and anger and clearly laid out why brain dead is brain dead, what the difference between PVS and true brain death is, and then laid into the media for prolonging this macabre charade and the inability to distinguish between the two. Those situations are completely different from McMath and shouldn't be compared. Want to throw Schiavo in there too, even though it has already been shown in numerous instances how she was considered to be in PVS instead of being declared brain dead?

As an aside, I wouldn't quote from comments on some website as some kind of proof that Jahi is really alive (or not really dead). That is a group of people who believe vitamins dumped into her IV line and a million likes on Facebook will help Jahi get up and do the two-step. It'd be a lot easier for me, at least, to give your notion of Jahi not being really dead if you could come up with credible, peer-reviewed instances of a six-times evaluated and pronounced brain-dead person coming back to life.

The diagnostic tools did exactly as they were intended in this case. Curses to all those greedy organ-stealing doctors always trying to kill off the patients early so they can...what? Profit? Make some other family deliriously happy? I'm unsure of the organ-stealing-doctor rewards. Does it look like:

1) Declare not-dead person brain dead and terrorize family

2) Take organs by deception

3) ...

4) Profit somehow? :sneaky:

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NotReady4PrimeTime has 25 years experience as a RN and specializes in NICU, PICU, PCVICU and peds oncology.

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Criteria for the determination of brain death are reviewed by an international panel of experts every 5-10 years and have been revised and refined continually since 1979, most recently in 2010. The 2010 review produced a checklist with all criteria, methods and rationale for testing included. Clinically, the apnea test remains the gold standard - examined only after each of the other clinical signs have been verified. Radionuclide imaging, electroencephalographic testing and cerebral angiography are ancillary tests often used to confirm the diagnosis of brain death. They are not a required element in the determination of brain death but most cetnres will undertake one or all of them in order to be absolutely sure the diagnosis is correct. American Academy of Neurology Guidelines for Brain Death Determination | Welcome to Clinical Operations | Life Alliance Organ Recovery Agency at Miller School of Medicine

So to summarize: A person receiving any type of sedative, anaesthetic or narcotic analgesia cannot be tested for brain death until sufficient time without any drugs on board to allow for complete metabolism and excretion has been attained. this speaks to reversibility of underlying causes of coma. Zach Dunlap. Steven Thorpe. These two people were never brain dead, they were pharmacologically comatose. Next, a person with intact respiratory drive - the ones who breathe spontaneously, effectively or not - cannot be determined brain dead. Gloria Cruz.

Any person who has been examined using 2010 brain death criteria guidelines who meets ALL of these criteria, with or without ancillary testing, twice with a reasonable interval of time are brain dead. Any person who has been examined using 2010 brain death criteria guidelines six times with days between assessments and who has had radionuclide imaging showing no uptake of radioactive tracers in the brain, electroencephalographic evidence of no electrical activity in the brain and cerebral angiography showing no blood flow to the brain, some of these in multiples, is brain dead. Jahi McMath is brain dead.

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casi has 3 years experience as a ASN, RN and specializes in LTC.

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Dr. Bryne is at is again

And per the Keep Jahi Mcmath on Life Support Facebook page: "...Jahi is Gods own child, she is being properly taken care of and loved by many. She is stable and she is much better in the new facility. Keep the love and prayers going. When there's any eventful information on her continuous healing, you will be updated..."

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Someone else's thoughts:

Many negative comments have been written about Nailah and Jahi. Many can be excused simply because they have limited knowledge. Yet some, as they propagate their agenda, seem to be trying to hurt, or at best, seem insensitive to Nailah and Jahi as persons. After a video surfaced showing Jahi's foot moving when touched with an ice cube, comments expressed disbelief and denial whether it was factually Jahi's foot and whether it was a recent recording. As someone who has seen Jahi's foot multiple times, it appears to be Jahi's foot, and it is unlikely that it was before Jahi left Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland.

Yet Jahi was hurt by not getting adequate nutrition for more than 3 weeks after her surgery. The only treatments Jahi was provided was the ventilator, sugar and salt in the IV, and a medication to reduce excessive loss of water. No protein, no fat, and no vitamins for more than 3 weeks! Jahi was not given any therapeutic help before escaping from the clutches of those determined not to allow her to live and thrive.

Nailah is a mother whose love transcends medical terminology, legal technicalities, monetary means, public opinion and any form of social persuasion thereof. Nailah's commitment to protect and preserve the life of her daughter, Jahi, demonstrates her love. Nailah holds dear her daughter who was bestowed to her by God, her Creator. Nailah is witness to God's miracle, her precious daughter, Jahi.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140207

Edited by Esme12
notation copyright

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There are so many different perspectives of this case. Sometimes I find myself being overwhelmed with emotion leading to my wanting to get on the hope boat and ride it out for Nailah and her baby girl Jahi. Of course, my intellectual part knows that Jahi is probably gone forever. If I vacillate on this, I can surely imagine what her poor mom must be hoping through. I really wish she could have her "miracle". If that could happen many would have to pull their feet out of their mouths. This whole thing just sucks. Totally.

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Someone else's thoughts:

Many negative comments have been written about Nailah and Jahi. Many can be excused simply because they have limited knowledge. Yet some, as they propagate their agenda, seem to be trying to hurt, or at best, seem insensitive to Nailah and Jahi as persons. After a video surfaced showing Jahi's foot moving when touched with an ice cube, comments expressed disbelief and denial whether it was factually Jahi's foot and whether it was a recent recording. As someone who has seen Jahi's foot multiple times, it appears to be Jahi's foot, and it is unlikely that it was before Jahi left Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland.

Yet Jahi was hurt by not getting adequate nutrition for more than 3 weeks after her surgery. The only treatments Jahi was provided was the ventilator, sugar and salt in the IV, and a medication to reduce excessive loss of water. No protein, no fat, and no vitamins for more than 3 weeks! Jahi was not given any therapeutic help before escaping from the clutches of those determined not to allow her to live and thrive.

Nailah is a mother whose love transcends medical terminology, legal technicalities, monetary means, public opinion and any form of social persuasion thereof. Nailah's commitment to protect and preserve the life of her daughter, Jahi, demonstrates her love. Nailah holds dear her daughter who was bestowed to her by God, her Creator. Nailah is witness to God's miracle, her precious daughter, Jahi.

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That was my thought as well. I said my words out loud while sitting on my hands.

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traumaRUs has 27 years experience as a MSN, APRN, CNS and specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

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Although we encourage lively debate, there seems to be some harsh words being exchanged. This subject has generated a lot of interest, but please be mindful of each other's opinions. Thanks.

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Thanks so much ixchel, for the kind way of expressing your viewpoint. I found it much easier to hear then some ofnthe other posts. You really do seem to have the compassion I've been talking about. Putting it the way you did is helpful not harmful. People need to be more humane and loving. This family's as been traumatized by this sudden event. Religious people lean heavily on their beliefs especially when something is as difficult as a child's sudden death. Anyway, I hope the McMath family finds peace at some point. I really do.

But the family is not posting here so I fail to see the reasoning behind your arguments in regards to what is posted here. This is all nurses, a place for nurses to come and discuss medical issues. Not all social workers.

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