I got people fired where I work, and now hate my job - page 2

I ran into a situation in December that involved abuse (emotional) against an elderly resident, involving 2 nurses and 4 cna's, I was not presnt whaen the abuse happened, but was told about it by a... Read More

  1. by   nursel56
    So, it was the participants in the abuse themselves who reported to you in an effort to throw each other under the bus? Guess that plan didn't work out too well for them

    That wasn't really clear in the first post. Under the circumstances I don't see that you had any choice in the matter. You did the right thing. Hope you're starting to feel better about it.
  2. by   litbitblack
    You did the right thing. Part of being a nurse is standing by your decisions. You had a responsibility to report that and let the proper people do the investigation. of course the people who did the abuse don't want you to say anything. THey know they were wrong. Way to go for being your residents advocate.
  3. by   barefootlady
    You did the right thing to report the abuse since one of the people involved in the abuse admitted the incident to you and acknowledged they knew their actions were abuse, BUT, LTC facilities are full of gossip, so beware in the future. I do not think this episode is over. Good luck.
  4. by   NurseLoveJoy88
    You needed to tell this could of cost you your job. Those nurses don't care about you all they care about is themselves. I know you want to be loyal but if that was your family member or spouse wouldn't you want a nurse to spill the beans on the abuser ?

    My mother called me last night frantic because she didn't report something bad that another nurse did. It almost cost her, her job.
  5. by   BabyLady
    Quote from shannieliz
    I put nin my post that I partly did it to protect the pt, and to protect my job, when it comes to abuse you are obligated by law to report it, suspected or real. I could have lost my job and my license by not reporting, it would be the same as if I abused the resident myself.
    Ok...I'll buy that.

    But when you told the supervisor that abuse that you DID NOT WITNESS was being discussed by other nurses...why weren't those nurses that didn't report it subject to discipline by the facility....they should have been.

    I also noticed that it didn't seem to bother you one bit that they weren't....which is strange, because if I stuck my neck out to protect a patient from abuse when the witnessing party didn't...and ended up catching flack for it to the point I was thinking about quitting...to me, that would be a pretty important part of my story.
  6. by   achot chavi
    YOU DID NOT GET THE NURSES FIRED, the decision to fire them came from the DON and ADM not you,
    all you did was report something that you were legally obligated to do. I am sure you reported it as you heard it without embellishing, and I am sure you said you didn't witness it firsthand, so i am sure there was an investigation and other witnesses were produced, including the pt who was involved. I am sure there was nothing personal between you and the fired staff , all you wanted was your pt to receive good care and the abuse to stop, if you hadn;t reported it it would have been as if you did it yourself. Staff like that give nursing homes a bad name!
    YOU ARE NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING so stop acting like it. Stop interpreting every snarl or mean look as if you deserve it. Some people just had a bad day or havent had their coffee yet and just look like that, no relation to you.
    You are innocent, believe in yourself and go about confidently in your day, ignor the threats, that is just stupid, the fired staff got themselves fired and can only blame themselves.
    It is an unfortunate situation, whistle blowers are never appreciated but as they say- its a dirty job but someone has to do it.
    This too will pass, keep your head held high, and be the best nurse you can!!!!
  7. by   achot chavi
    Quote from BabyLady
    Ok...I'll buy that.

    why weren't those nurses that didn't report it subject to discipline by the facility....they should have been.

    I also noticed that it didn't seem to bother you one bit that they weren't....which is strange, because if I stuck my neck out to protect a patient from abuse when the witnessing party didn't...and ended up catching flack for it to the point I was thinking about quitting...to me, that would be a pretty important part of my story.
    [FONT="Arial Black"]Two wrongs dont make a right, the OP reported the story as is, she doesnt provide the discipline and she doesnt decide who should be disciplined, that is the DON and ADM job, (and in my facility , also the SW) . It isnt the OP's job to judge anyone, just to report.

    Why are you attacking her for doing the right thing?
    It seems to me, by criticizing her , you are supporting the staff who abused the pt and their accessories.
    Please remember, if you were the pt being abused, you would want a nurse like her to care for you, I sure would!!!
  8. by   nursel56
    What I am understanding is that the two people who first reported to her AND four others were eventually fired. There is no innocent bystander that didn't fulfill her duty or that got off scot free while the OP suffered repercussions.
  9. by   nkara
    Oh honey you absolutely did the right thing. Our job is to protect the patients... if your not about that then get a new job people. LTC facilities seem to be more about covering your a$$ then hospitals. I worked at a LTC facility when I started and it was the same thing there. Intollerable working conditions and nasty staff. I worked nights and it was one shift pitted against the other always. Nursing staff against CNA's and management against everyone. It really is pathetic when your main concern needs to be the patients welfare and care. I would agree with one of the posters above with "don't say a word" They don't know for sure who said anything ... for all they know if was an investigation after a family complaint. Just do your job with your head held high. The incidence will pass .. if necessary you could get another job but don't give them the satisfaction! :urck:
  10. by   BabyLady
    Quote from achot chavi
    Two wrongs dont make a right, the OP reported the story as is, she doesnt provide the discipline and she doesnt decide who should be disciplined, that is the DON and ADM job, (and in my facility , also the SW) . It isnt the OP's job to judge anyone, just to report.

    Why are you attacking her for doing the right thing?
    It seems to me, by criticizing her , you are supporting the staff who abused the pt and their accessories.
    Please remember, if you were the pt being abused, you would want a nurse like her to care for you, I sure would!!!
    I'm sorry, your shout button must be stuck today.

    If you go back and read the original post...it CLEARLY states that the OP said in her original post...that she "heard" of the alleged abuse from "a nurse and a cna"...not a nurse and CNA that was involved in the abuse, and on top of that, didn't witness the event.

    That is what we call 3rd hand information.

    It is also called hearsay.

    Guess what isn't admissable in court? Hearsay.

    So ask yourself why is it not admissable in court? Because it's NOT reliable information.

    You don't pass along information that puts people's jobs and their license at risk over 3rd hand information.

    You are missing the entire point...obviously nurses and healthcare workers are mandated reporters..but you have to be careful on where you get your information from. I don't think I have posted, nor seen anyone else post anything to the contrary.

    I merely pointed out that the choice of words and leaving out a ton of important information...provided only after it was pointed out to the OP, to me, made the STORY suspect.

    People get fired over rumors, exaggeratilons, stories getting passed around the facility, etc.
  11. by   achot chavi
    Quote from BabyLady
    I'm sorry, your shout button must be stuck today.

    If you go back and read the original post...it CLEARLY states that the OP said in her original post...that she "heard" of the alleged abuse from "a nurse and a cna"...not a nurse and CNA that was involved in the abuse, and on top of that, didn't witness the event.

    That is what we call 3rd hand information.

    It is also called hearsay.

    Guess what isn't admissable in court? Hearsay.

    So ask yourself why is it not admissable in court? Because it's NOT reliable information.

    You don't pass along information that puts people's jobs and their license at risk over 3rd hand information.

    You are missing the entire point...obviously nurses and healthcare workers are mandated reporters..but you have to be careful on where you get your information from. I don't think I have posted, nor seen anyone else post anything to the contrary.

    I merely pointed out that the choice of words and leaving out a ton of important information...provided only after it was pointed out to the OP, to me, made the STORY suspect.

    People get fired over rumors, exaggeratilons, stories getting passed around the facility, etc.
    wasn;t shouting, I changed fonts and hit the wrong button, meah culpa..sorry etc.
    I agree it was hearsay and I am sure that when she reported it she didn't say "I witnessed" but "I was told that such and such happened by this nurse and this CNA...."
    IT WAS UP TO THE DON TO INVESTIGATE....and decide what is true and what is hearsay and not reliable evidence. I agree that hearsay is not reliable.
    As ADON, the staff and family report all sorts of things to me, I believe none of it till I investigate and get hard evidence from other sources, (we have cameras, we do body checks etc.) As I wrote, the OP didn;t get her fired, the DON and Adm made that decision.
    Reporting hearsay is allowed, all it does is trigger an investigation. The OP took a risk, if the info turned out to be untrue, she would have looked bad, as if she was setting up her friends. What she did could have boomeranged in her face!!! But she acted according to her conscience. I understand that you wouldn't have done what she did and I think we have to all agree to disagree on this.
  12. by   Moogie
    In a later post, the OP said that the nurse and CNA who told her were terminated because they were also involved in the abuse.

    Quote from shannieliz
    Actually the nurse and cna that told me both got fired, they were both involved in the abuse, the nurse was trying to get the cna to not tell, and came to me for advice, which is when I learned about the whole incident, I asked her if she realized that what they had done was abuse, and she said YES, can you believe the nerve?
    I find it reprehensible that a trained health care professional at any level could participate in the abuse of a resident, be aware that his or her actions are abusive and continue to engage in behavior that he or she KNOWS is abusive. The nurse and CNA were trying to involve the OP in their cover-up. The OP is right; to have turned a blind eye would have been condoning their behavior and she, too, would have been guilty of abuse.

    Would the situation be different if the abuse was physical rather than emotional? What if the OP said that her fellow staff confessed to her that they'd been sexually abusing a resident? Would she really need to be a witness to the actions or would she be justified in reporting what she knew to the appropriate channels?

    However, I do see another side to this. Although the OP doesn't indicate this, I hope a thorough investigation was done by the DON prior to disciplinary action. If indeed the DON acted solely on gossip or third-hand information rather than checking into it personally, the employees could sue for wrongful termination if they were falsely accused and fired without a proper investigation into their acts. While some might disagree and say that the mere allegation of abuse is sufficient to terminate an employee, a fair and ethical DON would and should properly investigate all reports, witnessed or not. LTCs are indeed notorious for gossip and if every LTC terminated its employees only on the basis of rumor, there would truly be NO ONE working in these facilities. Even the best people can become fodder for the rumor mills.

    It must have been very difficult for the OP to have turned in her friends and co-workers but she did the right thing. How would she have felt had she done nothing and the abuse continued or escalated?
  13. by   BabyLady
    Quote from achot chavi
    wasn;t shouting, I changed fonts and hit the wrong button, meah culpa..sorry etc.
    I agree it was hearsay and I am sure that when she reported it she didn't say "I witnessed" but "I was told that such and such happened by this nurse and this CNA...."
    IT WAS UP TO THE DON TO INVESTIGATE....and decide what is true and what is hearsay and not reliable evidence. I agree that hearsay is not reliable.
    As ADON, the staff and family report all sorts of things to me, I believe none of it till I investigate and get hard evidence from other sources, (we have cameras, we do body checks etc.) As I wrote, the OP didn;t get her fired, the DON and Adm made that decision.
    Reporting hearsay is allowed, all it does is trigger an investigation. The OP took a risk, if the info turned out to be untrue, she would have looked bad, as if she was setting up her friends. What she did could have boomeranged in her face!!! But she acted according to her conscience. I understand that you wouldn't have done what she did and I think we have to all agree to disagree on this.
    I agree with you completely...if it happened that way. Something in my gut instinct tells me that it didn't, and that is why the OP is getting the backlash at work.

    However, I don't think it's appropriate to report hearsay because if you are wrong, someone's reputation in the facility can get seriously damaged in the process.

    If the OP didn't feel responsible that she "got someone fired" then I doubt she would have used it as the title of her thread.

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