Older Student, Unprofessional Nurse During Clinical

[Nurse Magnolia]

After many, many years (20!) of "thinking about it", I finally decided at age 45 to go back to school for nursing. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and even though I have two other bachelor's degrees, the timing was never right for the commitment of nursing school. Now that I have two kids in college and my other two kids are high school aged, I decided that this was my time.

I will graduate one year from now from one of the remaining hospital based diploma programs (Our area is actually FULL of them) and then I will immediately bridge to a BSN after just two semesters because of my other degrees. I am currently a 4.0 student.

Because I am in a hospital based program, we get A LOT of clinical experience (it's the reason I chose this type of program) and so far, my experiences have been great and have only solidified my desire to be a nurse. I am loving every second of it.

However, this week I experiences something I didn't expect. I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!

I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.

I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.

So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.

If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....

So what say you, oh wise nurses?

[Mavrick, BSN, RN]

I wrote something earlier and didn't post because this topic, this situation, has about a hundred different take-offs as far as what could be said about it.

And I have mixed feelings, frankly. With that, here are some random thoughts:

When I first read your question I thought, "Come on - of course this is not the norm." With your life experiences thus far in professional settings, you have not experienced this type of thing. So far in nursing it doesn't sound like you experienced it before this incident, either. So you know it's a random thing that is not largely "the norm" in most of the public sphere, really. Therefore I wondered if there might have been a different question you were more worried about, such as "Is nursing so rough that I may find myself sinking into this behavior some day?" or "Why would any nurse do anything like this?" or perhaps you were hoping that we could confirm that this individual is a "very bad person and shouldn't even be a nurse."

This topic would've been a great discussion for post-conference.

Heck no it is not the norm; it was terribly unprofessional.

The thing is. In my ever-so-humble opinion, the whole of Nursing is very short on conveying to each other and to future generations of nurses, that, well, nurses are people too. Some days I really wouldn't mind a good meme to that effect. If you have read our Code of Ethics, you know they are very tall orders for basically every aspect of our lives, including our personal lives. They read as if we aren't mere mortals, for goodness' sake. Meanwhile, after we learn all the ideals of what we should be, we move on to the real world of caring for patients, where we are unabashedly treated...not quite like the kind and compassionate hand-holders and world-problem-solvers of whom the Code of Ethics speaks.

There is a major disconnect. Our profession would do well to quit warning future nurses about bullying, and start owning up to the mismatch of which I speak, which appears to cause innumerable new nurses to rethink the entire meaning of life and everything one has ever learned so far. Some nurses rarely display any professional comportment. Many patients couldn't care less if you spent all your physical and mental energy on their care and can't be bothered to come up with one iota of gratitude.

All things considered, passing judgment becomes difficult.

This post warmed my heart.

JKL33, I would like to have more of your attitude in my own.

[nursel56]

In my experience, what you heard and in such close proximity to the patient and/or family is not the norm.

[NurseCard, ADN]

Mavrick said:

The vulgarity is a personal thing. This country (United States) has gotten more vulgar as the popularity of social media makes it an easy click away to spew hateful verbiage. If you don't save the colorful language for that special occasion you just sound like street trash.

"Admiral, I must say the language here is laced with, shall I say, colorful metaphors. 'Double dumb a*s on you' and the like'"

"It's the language of the period. People don't pay attention to you unless you swear every other word"

[NurseCard, ADN]

Other than that last post, lol... I have nothing much else to add to this

thread... for the most part the OP's original post has been answered eloquently.

I will only say that... yes we vent about patients. They make us angry.

They frustrate the living hell out of us. We vent. We do. We have to

sometimes or we would go nuts. Teachers vent about their patients.

IN the teacher's lounge. That's the thing. Vent where patients and

families cannot hear you. To not only vent where the CAN plainly hear

you is horribly unprofessional and disrespectful; to do it while using

the F word doubly, triply so.

I work with a nurse who uses the F word often. She's from Scotland though,

it's part of the regular daily vocabulary there.

[Davey Do]

nurses are people too. Some days I really wouldn't mind a good meme to that effect.

Is this what you had in mind, JKL33?

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[Wheels28]

Just a patient-What you experienced is not unique to just nursing, you have/will encounter people like that everywhere. We have all talked about others, I have done it. Was the nurse out of line, in my opinion yes. I have a feeling if that nurse heard someone talk about her like that she'd have a major problem with it.

I curse but that is one of few words I don't say. Using the word she used was very unprofessional, especially where a large group of people can hear her. In my opinion a person using that word to describe someone is immature. Talking like that is no way to gain respect it's, an easy way to lose it.

However, it's how YOU choose to respond to a situation like that. In the case you witnessed the nurse who she was venting to choose not to respond. She very well could have been laughing at the nurse for talking like that and wasting her energy, and chose not reply.

I'm disabled due to CP and in a wheelchair. I've had people tell me being in a wheelchair is easy, that having all of the operations I had were easy, I could go on. What it has made me think about is how NOT to speak to others.

I can tell you as someone who usually had a room by the nurses' station I have

heard nurses talk about patients', it was usually the ones who were being unreasonable or nasty towards them, and they did not use such strong words. In the end be the nurse you want to be and others to look up to. Hope this helps.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

I had an experience sort of the same when I was a student. I did my nursing in a very small town and in my final year I had to do a placement on the acute mental health unit.

I'd had the experience of a 10 day admission to the same unit 18 months previously and ended up working along side many of the same nurses that had cared for me when I'd been an inpatient. The nurses were incredibly professional which I would have expected. The one thing that did not sit well with me was sitting through the morning MD meetings and often listening to the nurses and doctors being incredibly rude and scathing about patients on the ward.

My feeling was like 'wow, is this how you spoke about me"

That said unlike your situation, this happened behind closed doors away from the ears of patients and their families.

I understand now that nurses need to vent. I have been known on many occasions to employ dark humour as a coping mechanism. And yes sometimes we do make less than flattering comments about patients and families who demonstrate behaviours that challenge, I make sure if I do have a moment of needing to have a damm good vent that its in an appropriate venue and away from any ears that could possibly be offended by my rant

To be that rude about a patient within potential earshot of a patient and their family is just nasty, rude and disrespectful in my opinion.

Is there any benefit in you speaking up as a student?

I get the desire to want to bring about change in a work environment. One lesson I learned the hard way, to speak up about problems and things that impact on the delivery of safe nursing care when those in charge dont think there is a problem only ends up getting a very large target painted on your back. It shouldnt be that way however regretfully it seems to be like that

Having a debrief with your clinical instructor is a good idea, I wouldnt take it further and as others have said, 'be the change you want to see"

[ARNP2019]

Congratulations on returning to nursing school. From your professional opinion, I think you will be a true asset to the nursing community.

From my experience, some nurses do talk badly about patients, and nursing can be frustrating at times to feed those comments. I do not at all agree with saying these comments anywhere near a family member or other patient/family could hear, but it may be something discussing his pain tolerance in closed room that may happen. However, I think it should be kept to the assessment and not the extra derogatory comments. But, this is how I CHOSE to be. Not all nurses stay professional, but that is your choice and you do not have to join in. I believe patients are able to read judgemental nurses.

I am guessing different areas of the country have a different attitude, as well. At my workplace, that would not be tolerated, but it is a great place.

Good luck on the rest of school, and I would enjoy working with someone like you.

[Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP]

Here's a little advice, coming from a 29 year veteran. You will see and hear a lot you don't agree with and don't understand in nursing. The best thing you can do is keep your head down and do your own thing. The only time you want to get involved is when you either see abuse of a patient, or someone abusing drugs. The rest of the time keep your head down and move away. I say this because, from experience, any time you stick your head above the parapet in nursing someone is going to take a pot shot at it. It doesn't pay to bring attention upon yourself, and it can come back and bite you in the behind HARD. Now if you saw someone saying something abusive to a patient's face, then yes you have a duty to report that, but if you run to management and tattle on somebody for something like this, you're going to open up a whole world of trouble. Do not get involved in personality issues at work...I mean it. Walk away and keep your head down. Things like this can turn ugly real quick. It doesn't mean it's not wrong, but it just means you don't want a piece of it. Trust me on this.

[DarthEDnurse]

A word of advise ---You are going to have to grow thicker skin if you're going into nursing. It seems like you are getting offended by others comments on here. Maybe she was having a bad day. Maybe he has been asking for pain medicine all day. The one thing I know about men, we are wimps with certain pains. Around other men, we are tough. Around females, we like the attention from women.

Remember, nursing is not like other professions. It is a highly stressed job. We are taking care of people at their worst. We are rarely thanked or appreciated. We work hard for little pay. We help the helpless. But if you ask most of us, we wouldn't change it for anything.

[capa]

That is not the norm. Please don't give up your professional outlook.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

I think complaining about a patient is unprofessional. Have I done it... of course.

You are a student, you are there to observe, not judge.