Nursing school, setting you up for failure??? - page 2
I have a question to all nursing students....My brother is 22 years old and just transferred to a university after finishing his pre-reqs at a community college for financial reasons. Well to make a... Read More
May 10, '07Quote from wdwpixieUsually when you transfer schools, your GPA does not transfer. The credits transfer but the grades are not figured into total GPA... it starts fresh at the new school. So the 2.71 is probably his average for that semester.I was curious about how a 3.75 GPA student dropped to a 2.71 in his first semester at a university?
May 10, '07Quote from IndyGalOh, duhhhhh....that's what I get for trying to think during finals week!!Usually when you transfer schools, your GPA does not transfer. The credits transfer but the grades are not figured into total GPA... it starts fresh at the new school. So the 2.71 is probably his average for that semester.
That's a pretty big drop from his previous GPA....a few points might be understandable....I know my GPA dropped from like a 3.87 to a 3.7-something due to the expanded grading scale at the university I attended (meaning it was A+, A, A-, B+, etc., rather than straight A, B, C, at the CC), but that's a pretty huge drop....
May 10, '07I think that it is important for the school to really look into the student before making the choice to kick them out. Some students are great students that know the material that may have just had other factors that affected their sem and grades for that class! I think that should be taken into accout also before decisions are made!
May 10, '07Quote from TurtleSoupUnfortunately, Turtle has the right of it. It's supply and demand, staright and simple. There is a HUGE demand for nurses, and that is a fact.They make it hard because they have so many people who want in nursing programs and so few spaces that they can afford to be selective. There is a shortage of nursing instructors along with the shortage of nurses.
I was on a waiting list for a LVN program and the requirements were changed. The changes shut me out! It was a drag, but I met the requirements and took my RN pre requisites while I was at it. I'm now in a competitive entry RN program.
The point is, if he wants it bad enough, he's got to work around their requirements because there are plenty of other people who will.
HOWEVER, there is also a HUGE supply of students applying to programs with very small selection pools. My CC regularly has over 200 students apply EACH SEMESTER for a program that has only 30 slots available.
Therefore, as Turtle pointed out, they CAN be as selective as they wish. To be quite honest, I am surprised this University had a GPA entry as low as 2.5. Most START at about 3.0, with some as high as 3.5.
No matter how intelligent or driven your brother may be, the fact of the matter is, critical thinking is a HUGE part of the nursing profession. So, these schools select what they believe will be the "most likely to succeed."
A lot of people don't realize this, but the MAJORITY of CC's and State Uni's are FUNDED by the govt. The AMOUNT of funds they recieve each year DEPENDS on the SUCCESSFUL graduation of their students. If only 20 of the 30 that semester graduate, then they get funding for ONLY 20 students for the NEXT semester.
So, to wind up this long-winded response, a great many factors come into play for each school and how they come to base their selection criteria.
Perhaps your brother can look into some of the private schools in his area?
MikeLast edit by msdobson on May 10, '07
May 10, '07Quote from CraigPMethinks something is not being said here. I agree with Craig, they cannot do that, and THEY KNOW IT. Therefore, logic dictates that WE aren't being told the whole story.Let me get this straight - he was accepted into the nursing program when the GPA requirement to continue was 2.5, earned a 2.71, then they changed the requirement to 2.75 and would not allow him to go on to the second semester?
If so, talk to the dean. Every program I know states that the graduation requirements are set by the year you enter the program. If the college catalog stated 2.5 when he was accepted into the program then it stays 2.5 FOR HIS CLASS until they graduate.
Universities coined the term "cover your @$$". They wouldn't be setting themselves up for a lawsuit unless they'd already dotted their "i"'s and crossed their "t"'s.
May 11, '07Quote from kstecTo address the HESI part-the director of our program said that passing the HESI almost guarantees them you'll pass the NCLEX the first time. They will NOT release our transcripts to sit for the boards exam until we pass the HESI with a 900 or better. We get 3 chances and that is it. Reasoning: The school gets to keep their high pass rate. They really want to graduate only the cream of the crop (as bad as that sounds).I have a question to all nursing students....My brother is 22 years old and just transferred to a university after finishing his pre-reqs at a community college for financial reasons. Well to make a somewhat long story short, he is a very bright kid who left the community college with a 3.75 GPA and transferred to the university. He went there for his first semester just to establish himself there prior to getting into the nursing program. Well here comes that bad part, he is getting dropped his very first semester of nursing school. This particular college changed it's GPA average from 2.5 to 2.75, we'll he's getting a 2.71 and is out. He has busted his butt and now after going to college for three years to be a nurse, it's over. Why in the heck is it that if there is such a nursing shortage they make it so difficult for people to succeed? I'm not saying let less than average people through but why not help the intelligent, hard working people who really want to be a nurse? I guess it bugs me to that people are not passing nursing school because of the HESI. If someone proves that they are intelligent and competent but having a little difficulty, especially since the whole critical thinking thing takes practice, why not allow them to get help. My brother is devastated, especially because he has begged for help repeatedly with no success. Well the nursing field probably just lost someone who would of contributed alot to the field.
May 11, '07I personally think nursing school is too much about the books and lectures, I would rather be in the hospital more learning more, getting hands on training. I don't see why they did away with the hospital degree programs. I would think that would be more effective.
(I have also been told our community college program is much much harder than the local university)
May 11, '07Research supports that the "upper level" nursing degrees results in reduced patient mortality. I'm sure that the degree and associates prepared nurse is just as effective but that's what the research shows.
In many of my posts, I have said that each person is in control of his or her own destiny. Nothing or nobody can determine our individual successes more that ourselves.Last edit by decartes on May 11, '07
May 11, '07Quote from kstecWhy doesn't he come back next year? 50% of our class fails a semester, but most of them do become nurses, because they come back.Well the nursing field probably just lost someone who would of contributed alot to the field.
May 11, '07Quote from land64sharkYou are so right. In our class there were many who were scraping by for 3 semesters by barely passing. In the final semester most of them have failed the HESI and the semester.Here's what I've noticed. The students that barely passed the first semester, didn't pass level 2. Those that re-took level 2 barely passed or didn't make it through level 3. I've only just finished level 3 myself, so that's as far as I know. There seems to be a theme here. If it's really hard in the beginning, it doesn't get any easier. I know a girl that repeated levels 1 and 2 and was borderline for passing level 3. She said if she failed level 3, she would give up because she's already spent too much time away from her kids. (I don't know if she passed or not.) I can't imagine putting in so much time, effort and money and not getting the end prize. But really, what are her chances of passing the N-CLEX even if she does scrape through?
May 11, '07Thanks for everyone's input. But first and foremost he is very intelligent and is getting a 2.71 out of 2.75. It's not like he failing. He is doing excellent in clinicals and thoroughly enjoys working with his patients, but is having a hard time with the whole critical thinking concept (testing). I too had a hard time adapting the the concept and I think most students do. I don't think after just one semester of nursing school in a bachelor's program is enough to justify dropping someone out of the program. He's worked very hard to get where he is and I feel this form of process of elimination is a little abrupt. I realize that ultimately he would be a nurse taking care of someone and responsible for them, but I still don't think one semester is an appropriate amount of time to give someone time to get the hang of critical thinking. The main part he has trouble with is the testing. He eliminates the two obviously wrong ones and then somehow picks the wrong one out of the two left. He's asked for help and explanations repeatedly to no avail. Oh well, he will move on and either apply somewhere else or switch majors, but how sad, he really wanted to be a nurse and I think he would of been a good one.
May 11, '07Quote from Future_RN_JessThis goes back to my earlier response, Jess. Schools rely on high pass rates for funding money. he lower the pass ratio, the less money available from the Federal Govt.Reasoning: The school gets to keep their high pass rate. They really want to graduate only the cream of the crop (as bad as that sounds).
May 11, '07Quote from decartesWhile not debating your point, there should be many nursing pathways available to students. The healthcare ladder, so-to-speak.Research supports that the "upper level" nursing degrees results in reduced patient mortality. I'm sure that the degree and associates prepared nurse is just as effective but that's what the research shows.
In many of my posts, I have said that each person is in control of his or her own destiny. Nothing or nobody can determine our individual successes more that ourselves.
More often than not, those same nurses who struggle to obtain those "upper level" degrees don't want to work the graveyard shift in a LTC facility, whilst many CNA's and LPN/LVN's thrive in this environment.
Also, if you have ever been in the research field, you will know that research, in and of itself, is skewed, whether intentionally or unintentionally, to prove the researcher's theory.
Also, in order for the research to be validated, it must be able to be duplicated by another.
MikeLast edit by msdobson on May 11, '07