Need help about my acceptance odds, am very confused about several things!

greenjojofrog · Oct 19, 2005

Hi Karen,

My name is JOJO. I am currently a nursing student at the school you are trying to get into. You are right, it is very competitive to get into. Even though there is like 500 applicants for only about 80-90 spots, most of those are no were near ready to be accepted into the program. You are put on that list as soon as you show interest in being a nursing major. First thing the directors do is weed out all of the applicants that don't have enough prerequs done, because they know it is impossible to do the 20 hours of class each week for the program and work on other classes too. Plus most people either have a job or a family as well. Then for our school they don't take recommendations or resumes or any of that. They look at your GPA (especially in math and science) and your TEAS test grade.

Now for the 80-90 spots, to start out some of those spots are taken already. They save a few spots for the LPN grads that want to continue to the RN level, there is also like 4 spots in the day and the night program for the Merrimack College students that are on a special education track. Then there are already some of last years applicants that were accepted for the 2006 year because there just wasn't enough room for them in 2005. But with all that said, I just want to tell you that it still is possible. I got accepted the first time I applied. I have a good GPA (not the best, but good) and did very well on the TEAS.

Other than those 2 things its just like when you are ready to be in you are put into the pool of names that can come in. Then there is no rhyme or reason to how they pick who comes in. My class is extremely diverse and some people I have to wonder how they ever made it in!!! Once you are in though it is like a big happy family. There isn't any more competing, we just all work together and try to help each other get the concepts. Its really fun and laid back.

Good luck in your efforts, hope to see you next year!

JoJo

ladybugsea · Oct 19, 2005

Hey, JoJo. So only half of the Merrimack people are in the night program? Merrimack's website says 9 in the evening. I have a BA from Merrimack already; maybe I can sneak in that way.

Would you mind sharing your TEAS scores? I graduated from Merrimack magna cum laude, so my grades were very high. However, I don't actually have ANY grades on my transcript at NECC yet (everything is transfer credit from Merrimack or CLEPed). Do you think this will hurt me? As long as they look at my transcripts and see As... although I also have an MS from UMASS Lowell, and the grades aren't as high (over a 3.0, though, has to be for grad school or you won't graduate)... but it's a Master's in math, it was really hard!!!

Any idea how many in your class were accepted first try, like you, and weren't 'special' (Merrimack, LPN, wait list...)? I wonder if they give preference to men and minorites, since you mention the diversity and how you wonder how some of them got in. I'm all for diversity, just not for reverse discrimination against more qualified candidates.

greenjojofrog · Oct 20, 2005

I'm not positive but I think they don't really look at if one person is more qualified over another. I think once you meet the criteria you are in the pool. As for the Merrimack people, there are only 4 in my class--the night class.

I really don't know for sure how many people made it in first time taking the TEAS but I think it is almost all of them. I scored in the 98th percentile for the nation and the 99th for the NECC people taking it. It really isn't that bad. The english part is just reading and picking out mistakes, spelling errors and punctuation. The math part seemed to be just all basic algebra in a few different ways, ie word problems, math problems, etc. The science didn't even seem like science. It was like "read the followine paragraph and answer the questions" and the answers were in the paragraph you just read. I think you will do just fine especially since you were a math whiz. That seemed to be the hardest part for people.

For diversity I mean out of 40 there is approximately: 5 guys, 5-6 non whites, and only like 5 people that are under the age of 30--me being one of them. About half the class already has a Bachelors degree in some other major, which is really cool. There were rumors before the acceptance letters came around that they were not letting anybody in under the age of 30, I was definitely glad that it was just a rumor.

All in all I think your chance are good, if not great for getting in. Don't study too hard for the TEAS because like I said it is all basic knowledge. Oh yah your grades from previous schools just tranfer in as a pass or fail, so your grades for the classes you are in now are very important because they WILL be your GPA.

Have a good ONE,

JoJo:coollook:

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 20, 2005

Here's my new problem: I just sort of assumed that since it was a local community college, that with my previous degree, good SAT scores (from a long time ago, etc.), that I wouldn't have any problem getting into the nursing program in the fall of 2006. However I was talking to another girl in my class who is doing the exact same thing as I am, and she told me that there have already been 500 applicants for 80 spots in next years' program. I had no idea it would be that competitive. I am going to make an appointment ASAP to meet with an advisor at the school, but I wanted to solicit advice from you all:
Is this typical? I knew that the higher level masters' programs were competitive, especially programs like CNA and things like that, but with a huge nursing shortage I thought that they'd be actively recruiting people into nursing school, not making it difficult to get the training?
Why is it so hard? Aren't they desperate for nurses? Then hire more teachers!! Spend money on education instead of... well, let's not go there.

Dear Karen;

You are asking some heavy questions...let me try to address some of them.

Nursing School is much more complex than your regular community college degree and there are a large number of applicants for a select number of openings. This means that twenty years ago, when everyone was getting a business degree, it was relatively easy to get in. Now, with the economy turned upside down and nursing being one of the few reliable careers, there are more applicants.

In a regular college course such as accounting or history, you can merely add a classroom or two, a teacher or two, or get a larger room, when there are too many applicants. Nursing courses are not like that - they require a lot of one on one teaching, lab equipment, and teachers with the wherewithall to be "on call" to the students semester upon semester. The school also faces increased liability issues, as do the facilities in which one does one's clinicals. Depending on the community, the number/type of facilities as well as the number and type of local schools can limit the number of students.

It is not merely a matter of "hiring more teachers".

In my school, the number of acceptances per semester was 72 (less the number of students that were repeating a course or those that stayed out a semester). This was 6 clinical groups of 12. Even breaking these into shifts (7-3, 3-11 - two days per week), when there are 5 semesters of students for my school, you have to also account for 3 other RN programs in the area with their students, the local LPN programs with their clinicals, the local CNA (nurse aides) courses with their students, the HHAs and their students, plus RT/PT/Rad tech courses. There were times when the local facilities were so overwhelmed with different students, that few of them are actually getting a decent clinical experience. This became a serious problem during the labor and delivery course - not enough laboring mothers, and some of which were not comfortable with 2-6 nursing students of various ilk, staring at their person at any given time. Definitely not good for the students, the mothers or the charity hospital.

Lab equipment is pricy, sufficient lab personnel to oversee students at school are a cost, and all of the extras that go along with nursing school are expensive.

The Liability Insurance that goes with nursing schools is a cost. The school has to prove that it has the ability to monitor these 72 untried individuals in the hospital environment.

The instructors have responsibility for not only making sure that their classroom time is instructional and thorough, that they cover the acts/mistakes of 12 students (or 24 if they have two clinical groups) that may start out with little to no hospital experience, and be prepared to account for any errors that those students commit. They also frequently get phone calls from the facility/school and students on their days and hours off. Plus put up with some serious whining about strict school policies and "unfair" testing procedures. They do not get paid much and probably can make much more with much less time/stress commitment by ...working as a regular nurse.

I know of no other college teachers that put in as much time, deal with as much stress, face as much liability, and are as put upon as our nursing clinical instructors. Yet they rarely receive pay/credit for all that they do. The only "teachers" that I know that may put in the same amount of time, might be medical Attendings....and they have a slew of Residents, and the assurance that everyone has at least passed medical school, and gone through a rigorous screening process (more rigorous than nursing school). Attendings get paid better and medical schools definitely charge more than Nursing Schools do - do you think that nurses would accept graduating with the same amount of debt that medical students do?

Let's put more money in it....exactly where do you think that money will come from? (from your tuition dollars)

In addition, you will find many of those applicants are really not all that serious about Nursing, nor are they capable of the work. For the 72 each semester that were admitted, maybe 20-30 graduated, and some of those did not even take Boards. Most people fell behind a semester during school either through failing one course (you cannot fail more than one or you are out) or for medical /personal reasons.

The standards are strict. But we do not do the profession any favors by relaxing certain rules, as doing so would endanger public health and the patients that we care for.

As such, it is more than a "hire more teachers", or "put more money in it " situation. There are definite limits on what the system can handle.

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Oct 23, 2005

Dear Karen;
You are asking some heavy questions...let me try to address some of them.
Nursing School is much more complex than your regular community college degree and there are a large number of applicants for a select number of openings. This means that twenty years ago, when everyone was getting a business degree, it was relatively easy to get in. Now, with the economy turned upside down and nursing being one of the few reliable careers, there are more applicants.
In a regular college course such as accounting or history, you can merely add a classroom or two, a teacher or two, or get a larger room, when there are too many applicants. Nursing courses are not like that - they require a lot of one on one teaching, lab equipment, and teachers with the wherewithall to be "on call" to the students semester upon semester. The school also faces increased liability issues, as do the facilities in which one does one's clinicals. Depending on the community, the number/type of facilities as well as the number and type of local schools can limit the number of students.
It is not merely a matter of "hiring more teachers".
In my school, the number of acceptances per semester was 72 (less the number of students that were repeating a course or those that stayed out a semester). This was 6 clinical groups of 12. Even breaking these into shifts (7-3, 3-11 - two days per week), when there are 5 semesters of students for my school, you have to also account for 3 other RN programs in the area with their students, the local LPN programs with their clinicals, the local CNA (nurse aides) courses with their students, the HHAs and their students, plus RT/PT/Rad tech courses. There were times when the local facilities were so overwhelmed with different students, that few of them are actually getting a decent clinical experience. This became a serious problem during the labor and delivery course - not enough laboring mothers, and some of which were not comfortable with 2-6 nursing students of various ilk, staring at their person at any given time. Definitely not good for the students, the mothers or the charity hospital.
Lab equipment is pricy, sufficient lab personnel to oversee students at school are a cost, and all of the extras that go along with nursing school are expensive.
The liability insurance that goes with nursing schools is a cost. The school has to prove that it has the ability to monitor these 72 untried individuals in the hospital environment.
The instructors have responsibility for not only making sure that their classroom time is instructional and thorough, that they cover the acts/mistakes of 12 students (or 24 if they have two clinical groups) that may start out with little to no hospital experience, and be prepared to account for any errors that those students commit. They also frequently get phone calls from the facility/school and students on their days and hours off. Plus put up with some serious whining about strict school policies and "unfair" testing procedures. They do not get paid much and probably can make much more with much less time/stress commitment by ...working as a regular nurse.
I know of no other college teachers that put in as much time, deal with as much stress, face as much liability, and are as put upon as our nursing clinical instructors. Yet they rarely receive pay/credit for all that they do. The only "teachers" that I know that may put in the same amount of time, might be medical Attendings....and they have a slew of Residents, and the assurance that everyone has at least passed medical school, and gone through a rigorous screening process (more rigorous than nursing school). Attendings get paid better and medical schools definitely charge more than Nursing Schools do - do you think that nurses would accept graduating with the same amount of debt that medical students do?
Let's put more money in it....exactly where do you think that money will come from? (from your tuition dollars)
In addition, you will find many of those applicants are really not all that serious about Nursing, nor are they capable of the work. For the 72 each semester that were admitted, maybe 20-30 graduated, and some of those did not even take Boards. Most people fell behind a semester during school either through failing one course (you cannot fail more than one or you are out) or for medical /personal reasons.
The standards are strict. But we do not do the profession any favors by relaxing certain rules, as doing so would endanger public health and the patients that we care for.
As such, it is more than a "hire more teachers", or "put more money in it " situation. There are definite limits on what the system can handle.

Well stated, and at 2:00 am no less! All the above comments are why I am thankful to have been accepted at a school on my first try and I will put my all into it.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 25, 2005

Well stated, and at 2:00 am no less! All the above comments are why I am thankful to have been accepted at a school on my first try and I will put my all into it.

Love,

I am a night shifter.

It would be substantially less coherent, had it been written at 1000 AM.