Fail math exam and we are out!!!! Help!!!

  1. I am a second year nursing student with a new Director of Nursing. She has turned the program upside down and changed everything. She instituted a policy for 2nd year nursing students that we are given a proctored dose calc, iv calc, peds calc exam with only 10 questions. We need to get a 90% or better and have two chances. If not, we are kicked out of the nursing program. None of the second year instructors agree with this policy or think that it is fair. Does this seem fair? No remediation, no help. We already went through this last year and have passed. Our math tuturing center won't help us because they say it isn't math, it's nursing. 1/3 of us failed yesterday. If we miss one day of clinical (2 days a week) we can be expelled. Do we students have any recourse for all of the money, time and effort we are expending or can they just kick us out despite good grades, excellent clinical feedback and never missing a class. Please someone respond!!!!!!
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    About ExTechie

    Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 15; Likes: 1

    45 Comments

  3. by   Achoo!
    We have to do math exams as well and have 3 chances to pass. I think this is the norm. I am in second semester too.
  4. by   WDWpixieRN
    They require us to take a basic dosage test BEFORE being admitted to the program now....no IV or peds or anything, pretty straight-forward, but I think they had so many people getting in and not being able to do that math it was a means of weeding some of that out early rather than after they started school.

    Hopefully it's calculations you're already using in clinicals and won't be too difficult to pass!

    Good luck!!
  5. by   marilynmom
    I think it is fair, why wouldn't it be?

    We are required to pass a dosage test for both junior and senior years. If we don't pass with a 90% we are out and can't progress in the program. We also have 2 chances.

    Sorry but if someone in their senior year is flunking dosage tests twice, that scared me.
  6. by   777RNThatsMe
    First of all, they can't change the program requirements when you are 1/2 way done...that should be for new incoming students only. What was in your syllabi when you began should be what is standard for you all the way through I'd think.

    That said, we had to pass the math exam with 100 percent ...not 90. And we got two chances. We did it all the way through our program, also from the very beginning. Basically you get two chances so the first time you mess up you can learn why and then get it right. I managed to pass 100 percent every time but once if I remember correctly and I'm no math genious..... I suggest if you have trouble with math get some side studying going on till you get it down. There is a book that simplifies nursing math (health math)....probably more than one..out there. Dimensional Analysis does....they have a very basic CD rom that comes with it too...you can also google for math pointers and you may be helped there.... but you need your math down. This is why they have the strict standards -- medical errors can be avoided with that.
  7. by   777RNThatsMe
    Also regarding clinicals...we were limited in the amount /reasons for allowed missing. Basically our state requires X amount of hours and you only have X amount of makeup time and that makeup time has to be limited and for good reason only. pretty standard. We were only allowed 1 to 2 absences per quarter for the whole two years..... however..if this occurred every quarter they'd be able to expell you....even for good reason abscences...but...some folks got more depending on the situation. Again...standard due to guidelines when the accreditation/licensing comes into play.
  8. by   allthingsbright
    Quote from ExTechie
    I am a second year nursing student with a new Director of Nursing. She has turned the program upside down and changed everything. She instituted a policy for 2nd year nursing students that we are given a proctored dose calc, iv calc, peds calc exam with only 10 questions. We need to get a 90% or better and have two chances. If not, we are kicked out of the nursing program. None of the second year instructors agree with this policy or think that it is fair. Does this seem fair? No remediation, no help. We already went through this last year and have passed. Our math tuturing center won't help us because they say it isn't math, it's nursing. 1/3 of us failed yesterday. If we miss one day of clinical (2 days a week) we can be expelled. Do we students have any recourse for all of the money, time and effort we are expending or can they just kick us out despite good grades, excellent clinical feedback and never missing a class. Please someone respond!!!!!!
    Many schools have the exact same policy on med tests--my school included.

    Do I like it? No. Do I understand it? Yes. They are trying to turn you into a good nurse--which means achieving a goal under pressure. You will be responsible for someone's life out there-with NO second chances. Sorry!
  9. by   RebeccaJeanRN
    In our school, we had to get 90% too and we were not allowed to use any calculators (you should have seen THAT test !!!). On one more advanced test, we were required to get 100% (calculators were allowed that time). I don't recall how many chances we had because I met the goals, but I know some students were given at least one additional chance even though we were led to believe that it was just a single shot. So two chances at your school does not seem that unfair. Our school made the analogy to the one time chance that you have on the floor when you are a nurse, and the fact that the hospital situation will be even more seriously stressful at times, even though its not exactly the same thing. For example, in our hospital, we are required to double check math calcs with another nurse. Do you know that medication errors are the number one error that is made in the hospital and the number one reason for nurses losing their license? (I heard that more than once, and it sounds correct, but I do not have the evidence to support that statement.) So best to learn those calculations...
  10. by   AmyLiz
    We are required to pass a dosage calculation test consisting of 10 questions every term of the quarter. We have to get 100% on the test each time or we fail the class and are out of the program. I don't see how that's unfair though...I mean, when you have to deal with calculating drug dosages for pts, I would want my nurse to know 100% what they're doing.
    Our program also has an attendance policy...we're not supposed to miss a class or a clinical, but if we are sick or whatnot & absolutely cannot make it, usually we're given a chance to make it up, but really...it's discouraged to miss.
  11. by   Daytonite
    hi, extechie!

    i have been in and out of management positions a long time. one thing i can tell you is that this new don would not be doing something this drastic with the consequences you mention without the approval of whomever she answers to in the chain of command. so, from that perspective i think you are all pretty much fated to your doom on this. as several other posters have already mentioned, it is very common for schools to put a 90% passage requirement on these med calc tests or they dismiss students from their nursing programs. and, if you think that is harsh, i can tell you that many employers also do the same during their orientation programs of new grads and new hire rns. if they can't pass a medication test after two or three tries, they are dismissed as employees before they even make it to the clinical floors where they were hired to work! so, this subject is not going to go away and you will most likely re-visit it again every time you start a new nursing job in the future.

    i don't think it's fair of you students to stress out the other instructors about this. first of all, their allegiance is really with their employer, the college, if they want to stay employed. they are only trying to remain sympathetic with you students. they knew this change was coming before you did and i would venture to say that many of them, despite what they display to you students, are actually in agreement with it. med calc is so-o-o-o important. if the prospect of flunking out after failing with below 90% on a test hasn't impressed the seriousness of this skill on any of you, then one has to wonder where your commitment to nursing really is. patient lives hang on the edge of your ability to do these calculations—and you will do them on a daily basis at work as an rn or lpn. if you accidentally kill or cause harm to a patient because you calculated a dose incorrectly. . .it will be too late to learn what you should be learning today.

    here are links to posts i made recently for people looking for practice med calc problems. i urge you to explore them and work these problems. there are plenty there to keep you busy. if you have trouble post a message about the particular problem here on the student forums (not the regular nursing forums) and you will get help from other students.
    https://allnurses.com/forums/1797036-post6.html
    https://allnurses.com/forums/1791518-post2.html
    here is a link to a thread on dosage calculation help on the nursing student assistant forum that you should also check out:
    https://allnurses.com/forums/f205/do...ons-88867.html

    i sincerely wish you good luck on your second time around with the test. welcome to allnurses!
    Last edit by Daytonite on Aug 31, '06
  12. by   puggymae
    I think the math exam is fair - if each question were a real patient they are going to let you kill one and still pass! That is pretty lenient. I think that missing one day a semester for clinical is okay also - you cannot learn if you are not there.
  13. by   RebeccaJeanRN
    Quote from daytonite
    hi, extechie!

    i have been in and out of management positions a long time. one thing i can tell you is that this new don would not be doing something this drastic with the consequences you mention without the approval of whomever she answers to in the chain of command. so, from that perspective i think you are all pretty much fated to your doom on this. as several other posters have already mentioned, it is very common for schools to put a 90% passage requirement on these med calc tests or they dismiss students from their nursing programs. and, if you think that is harsh, i can tell you that many employers also do the same during their orientation programs of new grads and new hire rns. if they can't pass a medication test after two or three tries, they are dismissed as employees before they even make it to the clinical floors where they were hired to work! so, this subject is not going to go away and you will most likely re-visit it again every time you start a new nursing job in the future.

    i don't think it's fair of you students to stress out the other instructors about this. first of all, their allegiance is really with their employer, the college, if they want to stay employed. they are only trying to remain sympathetic with you students. they knew this change was coming before you did and i would venture to say that many of them, despite what they display to you students, are actually in agreement with it. med calc is so-o-o-o important. if the prospect of flunking out after failing with below 90% on a test hasn't impressed the seriousness of this skill on any of you, then one has to wonder where your commitment to nursing really is. patient lives hang on the edge of your ability to do these calculations--and you will do them on a daily basis at work as an rn or lpn. if you accidentally kill or cause harm to a patient because you calculated a dose incorrectly. . .it will be too late to learn what you should be learning today.

    here are links to posts i made recently for people looking for practice med calc problems. i urge you to explore them and work these problems. there are plenty there to keep you busy. if you have trouble post a message about the particular problem here on the student forums (not the regular nursing forums) and you will get help from other students.
    https://allnurses.com/forums/1797036-post6.html
    https://allnurses.com/forums/1791518-post2.html
    here is a link to a thread on dosage calculation help on the nursing student assistant forum that you should also check out:
    https://allnurses.com/forums/f205/do...ons-88867.html

    i sincerely wish you good luck on your second time around with the test. welcome to allnurses!
    :yeahthat:

    i love it when people take the time to really offer help to others, rather than just give a comment- great job verdana!
  14. by   moongirl
    yes. our school is the same, but consider yourself lucky. we get 2 chances and it is 100 percent, or you are out, not 90, and we have 20 questions.

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