Upsetting Day with a side of Ethics issues.

[kerric511]

Hey all ...

New to this forum, but I have to say, it gives me great peace to read some real world stores from some real people. You're all awesome in my book :)

I'm a male nurse. I work in a very small town hospital ER. Religion is a big part of daily life around here. I was working last night in the ER, when we had 2 pts arrive. One pt was clearly on something, he was agitated thrashing about, punched an attending, and scratched a fellow nurse, even gave me a rough time. I'm 6' 5" pushing 225, I'm also in an amateur kickboxing league, I can handle myself. As a last resort Haldol was given. Yeah, it was like a scene off TV.

Pt #2 followed, facial lacerations, the poor kid was a mess.

Police were not involved because some people had broken up the fight. How this happened without police I have NO idea. According to a witness, PT1 had attacked PT2 for being gay, this was even later admitted by the attacker (PT1)

I asked the attending if I should call the police. The attending said "No, that's ok, it was bound to happen, especially living like that in these parts" Then he said something to the effect of "He just needs to get some God in his life"

It took me a moment to pick my jaw up off the floor, this was an attending I liked and respected, until now. I am gay, but my sexuality does not precede me. I am "out" to VERY few people at work. I just feel that weather I'm gay or not has NO effect on my job, I am here to take care of people, and who cares what I go to bed with at night.

The whole situation just overwhelmed me, very little bother's me, but this is the first time I have cried being a nurse, I know I'm a relatively young nurse and have a ways ahead of me. This upsets me to the point where I don't know what to do? Do I go to administration??? We have an anti-discrimination policy, but it says I must report it to my attending, well my attending is doing the discriminating! To make it worse, his best friend from Med school is Chief of staff. So its not like my complaint would go anywhere other than the trash can, and potentially paint a target on my career.

I love my job, I believe no matter how bad your day is, at the end of it, if you put one smile on a face, then that one face makes your job worth it! But this was a hard day for me, made me think why did I do this again? Then again, I guess we wouldn't be human with out "one of those days" every now and then.

Can I file a complaint somewhere outside the hospital??? It is such a small place, with so many closed minded old farts in admin, this is a total Catch 22 Situation.

Anyone hiring? This reaffirms my point that I need to get out of small-town USA.

[kerric511]

How are you doing? How's the kid who was assaulted?

In spite of what your homophobic attendant says, you should call the authorities. This is a hate crime.

I'm doing better ... I went to visit the kid today. He's better, got released this afternoon.

[leslie :-D]

you know, sometimes it just doesn't pay to challenge a small town mentality, w/all of its subsequent ignorance.

even if you followed the chain of command, i'm not convinced that they would be neutral and unbiased in their responses.

if it is indeed, a God-loving, evangical community, chances are there will be very few to support the plight of the gay person.

as a nurse, you can always encourage the gay pt, to press charges...

but cynical me is wondering if the town cops would handle complaint w/any integrity.

what you can do however, is share your concerns w/the er doctor in question...

that while pt x may or may not need God, by fed/state law, we are mandated reporters.

at least the doc will know you take your responsibilities rather seriously and hopefully would respond more appropriately the next time.

but when push comes to shove, at least you know the truth, and all that is just and righteous.

your heart speaks volumes, and God hears YOU loud and clear.

please be assured, He is with a radiant smile...

not so much with the religious doc.

wishing you the very best.

leslie

[morte, LPN, LVN]

you know, sometimes it just doesn't pay to challenge a small town mentality, w/all of its subsequent ignorance.

even if you followed the chain of command, i'm not convinced that they would be neutral and unbiased in their responses.

if it is indeed, a God-loving, evangical community, chances are there will be very few to support the plight of the gay person.

as a nurse, you can always encourage the gay pt, to press charges...

but cynical me is wondering if the town cops would handle complaint w/any integrity.

what you can do however, is share your concerns w/the er doctor in question...

that while pt x may or may not need God, by fed/state law, we are mandated reporters.

at least the doc will know you take your responsibilities rather seriously and hopefully would respond more appropriately the next time.

but when push comes to shove, at least you know the truth, and all that is just and righteous.

your heart speaks volumes, and God hears YOU loud and clear.

please be assured, He is with a radiant smile...

not so much with the religious doc.

wishing you the very best.

leslie

yup, and yup again........you could try the STATE POLICE.......but dont know if that would do any good......or you could get right in there with the ....religious folk, "those who live in glass houses" those without sin cast the first stone....judgement reverved for god....you get the idea.....

[nursel56]

I think you've got two issues here.

First, docs professional ethics. He violated that when he treated the victim differently based on his sexual orientation. What he said "it was bound to happen living like that in these parts". If a woman was sexually assaulted, would he have said, "it's bound to happen dressing the way she does" or a black person beat up, "it was bound to happen hanging out in a white neighborhood"? Doc could very well be fired at alot of places for saying the latter two. I understand your reasons for not wanting to make waves in your job, but gosh sometimes people do send anonymous letters to ACEP, or whatever medical board is at the state level. Locals will circle the wagons. Even if nothing happens, when he's notified of the complaint, he'll be alot more careful next time.

The second was the crime ocurring and no one notifying the police but you said a nurse did report it. I sure wouldn't want to be the in the hospital, wondering why no one is doing anything to hold his attacker responsible. That's just too sad.

Anyway, sorry for being long winded. Just some thoughts I had. I wish you well and sorry you have to work in an environment where people feel free to say stuff like that without a thought as to how it would be perceived by anyone within earshot.

[BrnEyedGirl, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN]

In my state it is a HIPAA violation to report an assault unless it involves a gunshot wound, a child, an elderly person or a handicapped person, or it's a dog bite :loveya:, unless the person assaulted asks for the police. (I thought it was federal law, but I could be wrong), just as we can't report drunk drivers or those high on illegal drugs.

You're attending sounds like a jerk,..sorry this happened to you.

[psalm, RN]

It's not the failure to report the incident that disturbs me, but rather this comment: “He just needs to get some God in his life.” Was he implying the patient needs God because he's gay? Or that the other patient needs God because he's violent? I would speak with someone in the HR department. Such behavior should not be tolerated, especially in a hospital. I'm sure there are AMA guidelines that prohibit such behavior.

Assault is assault, male or female, straight or gay, all colors and ages included. The Good Samaratin (sp) provided for someone who was an enemy. I am hoping that is what the doc meant...that both men, victim AND beater, need God. But it wasn't okay not to report it.

[Aneroo, LPN]

It's not the failure to report the incident that disturbs me, but rather this comment: "He just needs to get some God in his life." Was he implying the patient needs God because he's gay? Or that the other patient needs God because he's violent? I would speak with someone in the HR department. Such behavior should not be tolerated, especially in a hospital. I'm sure there are AMA guidelines that prohibit such behavior.

The doctor needs some God in his life. It amazes me how closed minded and judgemental some people can be.

This is a hate crime.

My thought exactly. This is the kind of story that ends up on CNN because someone got carried away and someone died.

I'm sorry you had to hear that, and I would want to leave.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Someone reported it? Good. And I'm sure you were a comfort to the victim.

"Living that way here...." Ignorant, hateful pseudo-Christian.

[moonshadeau, ADN, BSN, MSN, RN, APN, NP, CNS]

Such an unfortunate situation. I am very sorry that this has happened to you. Good luck to you.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Now let's not paint all small towns with this broad brush of bias.

I live in a small town (600) and small valley (2000). This would never happen here.

And we have lots of evangelicals . ..

I am glad this was reported. As a new nurse, it can be difficult to know what to do in cases like this but remember that you are the patient advocate . .. . not the employee or colleague . ... and stand up to folks who say things like that doctor said.

All you really have to say is that it is wrong to beat someone up and make the call. The example another poster gave of other victims of assault is a good example. Assault is assault - whether someone is gay or not.

I am so sorry that this happened to you but I'm glad someone called the authorities. Next time, I know you will make the call. I wish you the best . .. . being a nurse definitely has a learning curve.

steph

[loveicu11]

I'm sorry to hear this. That particular doctor had no place saying that abuse was bound to happen. He is in the wrong place as an ED doc if he's going to judge who he treats and how he treats them based on his religion and his own prejudice against that man's potential sexuality.

You definitely should talk to somebody about this, as long as it is the right person. I agree with the previous comment about the doc saying "he needs some God in his life". He is a doctor, not a preacher, and he needs God in his life just as bad (if not more).

I know it's really hard to separate religion from our care for patients, but it must be done to provide unbiased, top-of-the line care to anyone/everyone (uncondition love ring a bell?).

[Texas Tornado]

Any more of that good old Christian love and that poor boy might be dead! Sounds like a rather septic environment. It's great that you were there to support the young lad. Maybe you weren't the one who made the call but I bet if someone hadn't you would have.