Online Nursing Schools vs Traditional Schools

[canwil2082]

To become a nurse was not a childhood dream of mine. It was something that I discovered I had a passion for in my early twenties. I had always loved math and science and figured I would become a scientist one day. I fell in love with nursing due to the study of the human body and the art of nursing itself. I have always had a compassion for people especially the older generation.

My family was unable to support me during my early years while pursuing my current dream of becoming a caring professional nurse. I enrolled in a Licensed Practical Nursing program in 2006. The school was over 60 miles one way from my dad's house. In addition, I had to go to the school five days a week while working three different jobs. I was a lower income student that had to struggle to find a foothold in the college education bracket.

Through much hard work, I passed the first two semesters of my practical nursing program. I was on top of the world at this point. I was approached by the director of the program to be grandfathered into the Registered Nurse (RN) program. They were looking to start a two year RN program and we were the guinea pigs. At first I had my reservations, thankfully at the pressing of the director I changed my mind and proceeded with the program. The program required another year of school and funds that I just did not have access to at the time. Thankfully my grades had obtained me a scholastic scholarship to continue for another year. My enthusiasm for nursing continued to be on the rise.

The end of nursing school for the RN program came so fast. It was May of 2008 and I was being pinned with my RN pin. I passed my boards and went on to have six and a half years of good RN experience. My time in the acute care setting for three years taught me much about the truth of nursing. I changed my track and went into long term care with a new sense of direction.

I was back where I started, but this time I would be in the RN role instead of the CNA. It was in this position for four years that I learned much about leadership. In addition, my time in this setting taught me much about nurse burnout. I never wanted to become that nurse. I thought since I had such high hopes about nursing that I would never fall to that excruciating word. I felt like I had lost the ability to care anymore.

Behind my convincing smile, I was deeply hurt by emotions. I was emotionally overwhelmed and I knew that I needed change. I searched for other jobs, but it felt like I needed something more than additional burnout.

I found a nursing program online that would lead me to a Master's of Science in Nursing Education. I had always loved my time in school. The atmosphere of learning, facilitating, and teaching was what excited me the most. I did an enormous amount of research on the program. I was always leery about an online program due to the stigma of an online degree. However, I did my investigation and discovered that the school was fully accredited by one of the major nurse accreditation agencies. In addition, the program was set to be in alignment with the National League for Nursing standards of nurse educators. The school was recognized by the US Department of Education as well.

I enrolled in the program and graduation was before me. The program was intense, and it helped me grow professionally and personally. In the process of obtaining my degree, I discovered I had the ability to think and analyze. I found a new sense of purpose in nursing. I could see myself teaching future nursing students. I realized that I care about their success and that I wanted to see them succeed.

I wanted to teach because I genuinely care about the students and their success. I found out soon enough the dirty truth about teaching in a traditional brick and mortar college. It hurts me say that even in an environment that is a part of highly intelligent individuals, bullying still takes place. I was told that I would not be hired by a local four year university to teach nursing because my degree was from an unknown online school. After all my hard work, I was destroyed on the inside when I discovered this devastating truth about most four year traditional universities.

The hopes of this letter is to educate the nursing profession about the sad reality of bullying in a center for education. The stigma of an online degree remains, even though the program I graduated from was recognized by the White House for what is right in higher education.

This innovative program allowed me to utilize my work experience. Furthermore, I was able to obtain this accredited degree with much flexibility that was customized to me. I fully believe that this program was the perfect one for me.

It is unfortunate that because some institutions do not consider my degree valuable. I will have a higher chance of failure at obtaining a successful career at these types of institutions. Are we not greater than that?

This reminds of a time when grade school children fight over whose lunch is better, or whose clothes are the best. Even though I fought nail and tooth to rise above my circumstances, I was shot down by those who think their degree is better than mine. My hopes is that my degree will lead me to make a significant difference in the lives of future nursing students no matter where I may land.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

This innovative program allowed me to utilize my work experience.

After browsing through your posting history, it appears that you have earned your BSN and MSN degrees through WGU.

Although I am enrolled in WGU's online RN-to-BSN program and have enjoyed the experience, I will not be earning my graduate degree from them due to a concept in higher education called 'academic incest,' which plays a crucial role to the careers of those who wish to become professors someday.

In academia, many employers prefer the instructors and professors that they hire to have been exposed to a myriad of ideas and trains of thought. On paper this is accomplished by completing one's undergraduate degree at a particular school before selecting a totally different college to earn one's graduate degree or doctoral education.

Due to the fear of 'academic incest,' completing a both baccalaureate and a graduate degree at a school with a mega online presence such as WGU may not bode well for someone who wants to become a professor at the university level.

The OP might not be experiencing this stigma if he had completed the BSN degree online at WGU and the MSN degree online at a land-based school such as Florida State, Western Carolina University, or University of Oklahoma. As I had mentioned in a previous post, online degrees are not demarcated with a stamp that tells employers they were earned via distance learning.

Academic incest is less of an issue for those of us who have no plans to become nurse educators or instructors. However, anyone who wishes to teach at the university level may wish to refrain from earning all degrees from the same school with a massive online presence.

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

Online nursing degrees are not stamped with a notation delineating that the degree holder earned them online.

Therefore, a person could enroll in a online MSN program at a land-based school such as the University of Wyoming or Villanova University and no one would ever know that the student earned the degree in the privacy of his/her home.

However, students who enroll in schools with mega online presences (read: Univ of Phoenix, Kaplan Univ, Walden Univ) may encounter employers who presume the degree was earned online even though that might not be the case.

To avoid the online degree stigma while earning an online degree, one may wish to play it safe and enroll in an online degree program through a land-based school with a solid reputation. After all, nobody ever needs to know that you never set foot on the campus of Texas Tech University although that particular school conferred your graduate nursing degrees.

That was a large part of the reason I went with UTA for my BSN. Yes, I did it online, but it is an online program attached to a very reputable B&M nursing school. And if I needed proof I made the right decision: I had looked in one of my nursing research textbooks and saw that the two authors were both affiliated with...you guessed it, UTA.

I've nothing against online education--I think it's brilliant. I've been doing it since 2005: in addition to the BSN, I completed a large portion of my pre-reqs for both the ADN and BSN online. I'll probably do it for my masters as well, though not at UTA because they don't have the specific program (PMHNP) I'm looking for.

But unfortunately, not everyone agrees with me. And when it's the employer that doesn't see online learning in a positive light, it's a tough thing to overcome. The fact it, it's an employer's market right now, and they can be as choosy as they like about their candidates. And as long as it doesn't cross any protected classes, it's perfectly legal. Not always fair, but 100% legal.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

That was a large part of the reason I went with UTA for my BSN. Yes, I did it online, but it is an online program attached to a very reputable B&M nursing school.

Yep. UTA's land-based campus, which is located 15 minutes away from my home, has 30,000+ students who attend the brick & mortar classes in addition to a great reputation in the local Dallas/Fort Worth community.

When I say 'brick & mortar' I really mean it: UTA's land-based campus is nondescript looking and constructed of brick veneer and mortar!

[red2006rn]

I agree that while it may not be considered bullying, it could be misconstrued as discrimination. There are no specifics in job postings that require you to have a degree from a particular University or to say that your application will not be considered if you received your degree from an online University. Setting standards is not a bad thing, however you can not stereotype everyone that has a degree from an online university. Just because someone graduates from a well known, respected university does not guarantee that they have what it takes to do a job.

In my opinion, it is not treating everyone equally if they are only considering applicants with degrees from certain types of educational facilities. It is violating state and federal employment laws because it can be seen as discrimination.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

In my opinion, it is not treating everyone equally if they are only considering applicants with degrees from certain types of educational facilities. It is violating state and federal employment laws because it can be seen as discrimination.

Online degree holders are not a federally protected class of people. The E.O.E. protected classes include race, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, age, pregnancy, and a few others.

Just like smokers, obese persons, short people, and individuals with tattoos, those of us who earned online degrees are not federally protected. Therefore, it is legal to discriminate against us. It might not be right, fair, or equitable, but employers and schools are free to discriminate against those of us who have earned degrees via online or distance-based platforms.

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

In my opinion, it is not treating everyone equally if they are only considering applicants with degrees from certain types of educational facilities. It is violating state and federal employment laws because it can be seen as discrimination.

It's not discrimination in the least. Here is the federal information page on types of discrimination:

Types of Discrimination

There's several categories of discrimination listed there, but where an applicant went to school is not one of those categories. You and others may personally feel that it's discrimination, but the law sees it otherwise.

[edmia, BSN, RN]

I think the original post is poorly written, and I do not see not being chosen for a job because of a degree being earned online and "bullying."

I'm sorry to agree with Anna. The writing is not representative of someone with a graduate degree and this might be closer to the real reason for not getting hired. I don't fault the writer either, as I've witnessed poor writing skills in nurses with MSN degrees from a variety of universities. The problem here is that many schools of nursing hire nurse educators to teach writing instead of hiring an educator with a degree in writing! I still don't understand why this happens.

Sent from my iPhone -- blame all errors on spellcheck

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

I'm a nurse educator. I've experienced both ends of the spectrum (virtual traditional) both as a student and teacher. Even though the idea of distance education is certainly not new - the very first reputable system was Peoples University in the UK (est. ~1860). The virtual word of nursing education is fairly recent. While there are some sterling examples of long-established distance programs such as Frontier Nursing University (est 1939) and Athabasca (Canada 1972) - there 'evidence' is still insufficient to make any sweeping judgments about the overall efficacy of any one approach.

We DO know that some types of courses are not very suitable for online instruction (with current technology limitations). There is a convincing amount of evidence that many introductory level Math and Science courses are achieve much better results in a traditional classroom environment, even when controlled for educator experience and expertise. It is apparently the level of real-time interaction with others (students & instructor) that makes a difference.

Courses with outcomes that include any type of psychomotor skills are not suitable for online delivery. The same goes for outcomes that require a student to apply cognitive and physical skills in a physical environment.... simply cannot be accomplished in a virtual environment. This month's issue of The Journal of Nursing Regulation (NCSBN) includes an analysis of simulation-based education in nursing programs.. which reveals that most faculty are inadequately trained.

My point? Faculty jobs that require physical, in-person, real-time interaction with students require a skill set that cannot be developed or validated via online methods. The time-honored 'apprenticeship' method of student teaching is a must. Just learning how to control classroom activities, how to gauge student engagement & interject spontaneous activities.... CANNOT be learned online. This, my friends, is why traditional schools are reluctant to hire new faculty whose only teaching experience has been virtual. There may be some snobbery, but there is also the matter of basic competence.

[Natkat, BSN, MSN, RN]

Give it time and that stigma will go away. As more and more nurses opt for online programs, I think employers will shift their thinking. Everything in this world changes. It might come to late too be of benefit to the OP, but I don't agree that other people should be discouraged from going through an online program.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

I'm sorry to agree with Anna. The writing is not representative of someone with a graduate degree and this might be closer to the real reason for not getting hired. I don't fault the writer either, as I've witnessed poor writing skills in nurses with MSN degrees from a variety of universities. The problem here is that many schools of nursing hire nurse educators to teach writing instead of hiring an educator with a degree in writing! I still don't understand why this happens.

Sent from my iPhone -- blame all errors on spellcheck

I so wanted to make this point earlier. However, I apparently have a talent for typing responses that are only read as snarky, not constructive. So I didn't. Thank you for expressing the issue so well. I did not consider the Original Post to be illustrative of a graduate degree-prepared author.

[joyouter]

I believe it is a part of the weed out process.

First it was Bsn over the Adn.

Now its online Bsn vs B and M.

Although this has not caught on everywhere,(but is happening in my area) many employers are asking for transcripts.

They are looking at GPA's.

Your employers appear to have overstepped ethical lines. They are employers , not educators nor do they represent learning other than possible on going training.

Is it possible they want to assess staff for advanced studies and will offer paid tuition? ( optimistic thinking) Otherwise, how can they justify this action- other than an invasion of personal data. It is up to the graduating school to provide GPAs to another educational institution - when a student lists the school as a part of background learning. The employer hires the qualified grad based upon evidence of success.

Pessimistically, is this a new method to hire and fire? In many workplaces, there are HR persons without a degree at all, placed in positions of power and acting as HR / manager for nurses with superior learning. This is a disasterous scenario and provokes havoc and chaos in addition to resentment. The new paradigm of nursing management ?

[Natkat, BSN, MSN, RN]

The place I work looks at GPAs as well.