Survey: Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortag - page 18
This month's survey Question: Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortage? Please take a minute to take answer our survey and please feel free to reply to... Read More
Aug 16, '04Occupation: lpn; soon to be RN Joined: Oct '03; Posts: 57; Likes: 9I love our foreign nurses, but do you want to know who helped me get thru nursing school while being a single mom of two and working full time? NOBODY! The warm bodies are out there and could use a little help.
Aug 16, '04Joined: Jun '04; Posts: 1,050; Likes: 19I don't think it is fair to all of those waiting on lists to immigrate to this country. Then there is also the threat of introducing old pathogens to our vulnerable patients, those diseases that have been virtually wiped out of this country will be on the rise. There are plenty of nurses out there, nurses that demand a change in the healthcare system/politics before returning to work as nurses.
Aug 23, '04Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 50; Likes: 3Hi from MiamiMike-I voted No! The powers to be need to correct the Nursing situation here in this country-deal with the root problems,patient ratios,Ot,safety,ect. Otherwise the problem just festers like an old wound! these foreign nurses just depress our wages. Here in Miami, Fl. we have a lot of Nurses from the carribbean islands and south america and their english proficiency leaves a lot to be desired. Take cuban nurses for example-all they have to do is go to a federal govt. accrediting agency with their degree and a copy of their transcripts-have them validated and officially transcribed and translated and they are ready for the State of Florida Nursing Exam. Many do not pass due to their lack of english the 1st time:I know some in home health who do their rough narratives in spanish and then pay a high school or college student who is bilingual to write them in english for $1 a page. Their pts. are spanish speaking but still -no license until a nurse can communicate-error free-in english at the Technical level-is my contention.Many of these nurses only care about getting a license and a job and $$$$$$-with really no concentrated effort to learn english at the technical level.I have performed Q&A chart reviews and I kid you not-a good 5th grade student communicates at a higher level of english then some of these island nurses!! Hard for someone living out of this area to beleive but it is true!! Also some are confused on simple tasks such as operating various glucometers, Ventilators,ect. Wound care technique is another story-Sterile Techique-What's That? Lots of MRSA here due to this lack of sterile technique in the local hospitals. AND some of these home health nurses are knocking down $100k-$120k yearly. I think that before granting these nurses a license here in the USA-they should have to undergo a Practical Exam also on US nursing procedures and that includes the equipment also. Before they get a US driver's license-they have do pass a written and practical on the road test-no less for a nursing license. My opinion only for what it is worth. Mike:chuckle
Aug 23, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843Quote from Lyuri HardishekI am acutely aware of a nursing shortage in our area, at the same time the agencies are being cut back in their requests. The working conditions here which are 30-40 to one nurse in a long term facility are ridiculous. Nurses come in, burn out, and leave rapidly. I am so exhausted as a PRN nurse, with inadequate orientation to a facility (this costs money), not always supported in the overtime needed to complete the notes after giving up breaks and meals and running constantly, that I cannot share any enthusiasm for regular nursing in an instititution. There is not ONE local working nurse I have met that does not show signs of extreme stress. Committed nurses are not the issue. Greed somewhere at the top and inefficiencies in managerment are my observatiions. I find it ironical that in Casa Grande, AZ they are bringing over nurses from Scotland and England and overseas nursing agencies are recruiting RNs to those areas! What is happening in the medical arena is happening in corporate America everywhere. Greed. Working conditions everywhere have changed dramatically. Is it any different than giving all manufacturing to 3rd world countries and then having our taxes bail out their unstable US investments there after NAFTA passed? When will America wake up?
I am actually from Casa Grande, AZ. After doing some of my clinicals in the local hospital, seeing the horrible working conditions, poor quality of pt care, and the down-trodden, long suffering nurses in that hospital, I would never work there. Very few of my fellow grads work there, either.
After graduation, I drove 72 miles each way to another town to work, even though I lived only blocks from the local hospital. Casa Grande is full of nurses who drive many miles out of town to work.
But, the hospital would rather spend $$$ to bring in nurses from the Phillipines, Canada, etc than address working conditions.
There is no shortage. It's all about the working conditions.
Aug 23, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843Quote from 3rdShiftGuyDon't you think that employers can manipulate the situation to make it appear that no one has applied for advertised jobs, or make the compensation package and working conditions so poor that they purposefully turn their nursing jobs into "jobs no American wants"?But the immigration laws are clear. For a foreigner to come to this country and take a job, the employer must prove it's a job no American wants.
I will give you an example-
About a year ago, I received a full color, glossy recruitment letter along with a fake check for $10,000. from a local hospital. The brochure showed a woman bending over backwards, saying "Nurses: We're bending over backwards to hire you!"
On the bottom of the phony check, it said "Want to get a real check for $10,000? Call our nurse recruiter today, and ask about our sign-on bonus program!"
I called the day I received the solicitation and was told "We are fully staffed. We are not hiring nurses."
Recently, there was an article in my local paper about how this hospital is going to recruit from the Phillipines, because they can't find enough local nurses!
I'm positive the hospital manipulated the entire situation so that they could bring in foreigners, rather than hire locals.
Aug 23, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843Originally Posted by fourevern4alwayz
[Where I work, there are a lot of conflicts between a majority of the workers because most of the nursing staff are Phillipinos and it creates tension in the workplace b/c there is favoritism when there is a Phillipino supervisor at night, they all get to slack off and stand around b.s.'n in their own language, and when someone brought these problems up to the supervisor, they acted as if they were offended, but then what did they continue doing???? No not all of them are acting this way, but 98% are, and God forbid anyone says anything about it. It wouldn't bother me so much if they would just stop ignoring the rules of our facility and be more professional and work more. "
I worked in a hospital where I was one of only two Americans working on my unit. The racism against caucasians there, and the way I was completey alienated and excluded from everything was a major factor in me leaving that hospital. The other American nurse there left for the same reasons.
And yes, the dynamics of the unit were such that the vast majority of the foreign nurses just sat around the nurses' station talking, eating, making personal phone-calls and ignoring their pts, and falifying documentaion, i.e. making up assessments that they did not do.
I'm sure the dynamics at the facility, the toxic atmosphere, and clueless adm had much to do with why the nurses were the way they were.
I have worked with non-American nurses in other facilities, and in other situations, where the foreign nurses gave excellent care, were friendly and were not racist.
Aug 24, '04Occupation: Case Manager Specialty: 12 year(s) of experience in Case Manager, LTC,Staff Dev/NAT Instr ; From: US ; Joined: May '04; Posts: 178; Likes: 20Quote from alatta58amen!!!!hi from miamimike-i voted no! the powers to be need to correct the nursing situation here in this country-deal with the root problems,patient ratios,ot,safety,ect. otherwise the problem just festers like an old wound! these foreign nurses just depress our wages. here in miami, fl. we have a lot of nurses from the carribbean islands and south america and their english proficiency leaves a lot to be desired. take cuban nurses for example-all they have to do is go to a federal govt. accrediting agency with their degree and a copy of their transcripts-have them validated and officially transcribed and translated and they are ready for the state of florida nursing exam. many do not pass due to their lack of english the 1st time:i know some in home health who do their rough narratives in spanish and then pay a high school or college student who is bilingual to write them in english for $1 a page. their pts. are spanish speaking but still -no license until a nurse can communicate-error free-in english at the technical level-is my contention.many of these nurses only care about getting a license and a job and $$$$$$-with really no concentrated effort to learn english at the technical level.i have performed q&a chart reviews and i kid you not-a good 5th grade student communicates at a higher level of english then some of these island nurses!! hard for someone living out of this area to beleive but it is true!! also some are confused on simple tasks such as operating various glucometers, ventilators,ect. wound care technique is another story-sterile techique-what's that? lots of mrsa here due to this lack of sterile technique in the local hospitals. and some of these home health nurses are knocking down $100k-$120k yearly. i think that before granting these nurses a license here in the usa-they should have to undergo a practical exam also on us nursing procedures and that includes the equipment also. before they get a us driver's license-they have do pass a written and practical on the road test-no less for a nursing license. my opinion only for what it is worth. mike:chuckle
Aug 24, '04Occupation: staff nurse Specialty: 25 year(s) of experience in ER, ICU, Hyperbarics/wound care. PSYCH ; From: US ; Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 42; Likes: 29There is only one way to change things. Nurses have to become organized. One nurse's opinion is just that, an opinion. Get 100,000 nurses together and you are a political force to be reckoned with. I hear we need to have BSN's to be recognized as professionals, we need this or that. We need only one thing. We need to come together as a group. If the ANA could become a union, like the CA nurses association did. We would have unbelievable political clout. We could push through mandates for nurse patient ratios, no forced OT. Instead nurses travel to areas where other nurses are striking and fighting for change, and cross the picket lines. Then they come back home and complain about nursing standards. It is not the uniformity of education that is the key, it is the uniformity of purpose. Until we come together we will eat the crumbs we are given. Salaries, ratios, foreign nurses, etc. I have nothing against a foreign nurse coming here to improve their lot in life. I would do the same if I were in their shoes. Even that nurse will one day need to pick up her children at day care and have their employer say "I need you to stay till 11, if you leave now it will be patient abandonment and we will report you to the board."
Look around, nurses, get your friends together, join the political fight. You want change, make it happen. There is only one way to change all this. Somehow we have to become a group with goals and purpose beyond that of the individual.
Aug 25, '04Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 2And to the nurse in another post that was complaining about foreign nurses coming and working 80 hours per week and not leaving any hours for other nurses. Get real!!! If there were other nurses to work those hours, do you think that the hospital would be paying the overtime????
Are we loosing the BIG PICTURE??? HOW are these nurses NURSING? How in the hell can you be a good nurse when all you care about is the money? I ask you - I have witnessed nurses coming to this country and talked to pts like they were ornaments, talked to them rarely - had no clue about assessing - ie "put in their time" THIS DOES NOT make you "hard-working" in fact - it is dangerous!!!!
Aug 25, '04Occupation: poor nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 2,293; Likes: 86Canadian nurses are "foreign"? I guess they are....
I've worked with many canucks and I've I've never considered them to be "foreign". That's so funny.....I do agree, though, that Canadian nurses are awesome! :hatparty:
What's not so funny is an RN trying to orient a Filipino nurse and unable to comprehend 50% of what she says.....terrible.
Aug 25, '04Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 12,735; Likes: 1,812I don't have a problem with recruiting foreign nurses per se, but I do have a problem with hiring them using a different salary tier system, which can make it more attractive for hospitals and agencies to use them rather than to pay American nurses what the job is worth. They also need to speak English fluently, and be willing to adopt American customs that they may be uncomfortable with at work, if those customs are necessary to do the job. For example, a family whose child receives services through out local Early Intervention program told me that the nurse who just did not want to include the family in on the Individualized Family Service Plan goal writing and progress tracking. Turns out that in her country, the "professionals know best" attitude is still king and parental input is considered too subjective to be valid. The whole premise of the EI system, in our state anyway, is that programs are most effective when they are designed by a parent/professional collaboration. The Mom finally got assigned to another nurse, but the program continues to employ the nurse who won't interact with parents. If you take the job, you should have to honor the mission and philosophy of the program, whether you agree with them or not.
Aug 27, '04Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 50; Likes: 3Quote from brianIn a recent Miami Herald Article(8-24-04) the director, Ms. Judy Pendergast of the Commission on foreign nurse graduates stated "No one was screening these foreign nurese". Now, under new rules from the Fed. Dept. of Homeland Secuity,they will face much tougher scrutiny at the US Borders. Terrorists also know no gender, as evidenced by those two suspected females in the Recent :angryfire downing of the two Russian aircraft.These temps must now meet the same provisions as their counterparts entering on permenent Visas.A Miami immigration atty noted these new rules will cause a undue hardship on Hospital Staffing agencies and my reply to him is-redirect your enormous energy and legal capability to rectify the Root Problem of our current crisis(pay, long hours floating,ect.) and the crisis will right itself. Nurses will swamp the Hospital Personal offices nationwide like long lost cousins coming to visit you after you hit the Power-Ball Lottery! And there is another thing nurses nationwide can do come Nov.2-2004. Vote for a President who will show a New direction on this issue-lack of direction since 2000 has worsened this crisis and without new direction it will only worsen. If you are satisfied with the staus quo-maintain the current group-if not review their Discharge Papers with them and escort them to the Exit Door.! The choice is yours and never has it been more critical! Vote Kerry/Edwards 2004!This month's survey Question:
Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortage?
Please take a minute to take answer our survey and please feel free to reply to this topic to post any comments that you may have on the topic.
Aug 27, '04Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 50; Likes: 3Quote from rwrn4015Hi-Iam from the south and a state and city on the east coast-last state on the tip of the US (you guess) -here in home health you would not be able to work unless you have technical command of Spanish.,As a new grad, the topic of foreign nurses has bothered me. Over 50 % of the nurses on my floor are from the Philippines. That does not bother me but what does is when the nurses, N/A and other staff start talking in another language. I have no clue what they are saying and for all I know they could be bad mouthing me. I feel like their language should be kept out of the american workplace.
#2 the foreign nurses have received free housing and transportation for a few months. I did not see my hospital paying for my rent or any gas money.
These problems leave room for animosity toward the Philippino nurses . Does anyone else agree?