Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight

Nurses General Nursing

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  • Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

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azhiker96, BSN, RN

1,129 Posts

Specializes in PACU, ED.

You did the right thing. A professional nurse should not refuse to care for a patient based on (the patient's) religion or ethnicity. We have a duty to give care once we get report. I actually think it's shakey to refuse report on a patient based on these factors. Years ago I was a medic and OR tech in the army. In my medic role, I knew that during time of war I might be called on to treat enemy wounded. I was prepared to do that to the best of my ability because that's my job.

penguin2

148 Posts

While I don't refuse patients for any reason, I have worked w/nurses who refused to assist in certain procedures due to their religious beliefs- this was not a problem. My memory may not be 100% accurate re: this, but a friend of mine said there was a news program on TV several months ago about a muslim who did not like the treatment he rec'd in the ER from 2 nurses. He waited until both of the nurses were getting off duty one night and shot them both in the parking lot- one died, one lived but is disabled- paralyzed I think- this is enough to scare anyone. Furthermore, I have seen other RNs treated poorly & in a verbally abusive way- yelling, threatening- by male family members of muslims. Still, I would not REFUSE to take care of any patient- regardless of race or religion-- UNLESS I was threatened or treated in an abusive manner. I have taken care of criminals, child abusers, wife beaters, hostile patients, drunks, druggies, HIV/AIDs patients--- I don't LIKE to, but it is our job to remain non-judgemental of each other. Fortunately these types of patients are not in the majority- in my experience.

ZASHAGALKA, RN

3,322 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care.

There is no relationship between refusing to do certain nursing procedures due to religious objections and refusing to take care of someone due to prejudice.

I much dislike even the casual connection between the two concepts.

For starters, most facility policies require that you notify administration IN ADVANCE of being put in that situation. Then, it becomes management's duty to ensure that you avoid being put in those situations.

If, for example, it had been an issue of hanging blood, her supervisor, the OP, would have known that and could have made staffing decisions in advance.

But, cultural diversity is an intergral part of nursing. THAT is not something you can refuse. It's akin to volunteering for active duty infantry and THEN, claiming conscientious objector status. Nope, doesn't work that way.

Or, it's kind of like ME saying that I will no longer take care of patients that have diarrhea because I don't like cleaning poop.

I'm sorry, that's in the job description. It's non-negotiable.

Now, you DON'T HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF MUSLIM PATIENTS, if it's that much an issue for you. But, that only way achieve this goal is to not be a nurse. Period.

Please, let's stop equating bigotry to valid religious beliefs. They aren't the same. They aren't nearly the same.

~faith,

Timothy.

azhiker96, BSN, RN

1,129 Posts

Specializes in PACU, ED.

Timothy, I edited my post after seeing it could be read two ways. However, I'm also not real hot on the idea that a nurse could refuse to perform valid necessary treatments based on their personal religous beliefs. As you pointed out, some things come with the territory. If I can't stand to clean up feces I probably shouldn't be in nursing. At the very least I should be prepared to do the job every now and then if nobody else is around to cover for me.

Tweety, BSN, RN

34,248 Posts

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Timothy, I edited my post after seeing it could be read two ways. However, I'm also not real hot on the idea that a nurse could refuse to perform valid necessary treatments based on their personal religous beliefs. As you pointed out, some things come with the territory. If I can't stand to clean up feces I probably shouldn't be in nursing. At the very least I should be prepared to do the job every now and then if nobody else is around to cover for me.

Point well taken. I don't think forcing someone to make a choice against their personal beliefs because it comes with the territory is really a good idea. Obviously if a JW worked in a blood mobile allowances shouldn't be made. Same as if I worked in an abortion clinic and refused to participate, then just fire me. But in the day to day world, I think making allowances can be tolerated. It's not the same as cleaning up poop.

I still however support zero tolerance for refusing to care for patients because of prejudice beliefs such as the original poster indicated.

...

Case in point! I was a new nurse in an ER...and a man came in with a throat laceration. I didn't know how he got it...until another nurse treating a 1 year old came in and told me what my patient had done to her! Apparently my patient raped her...and the father found out and cut his throat!

Yeah...I honestly was so mortified...so ashamed I would help this person to live it wasn't funny...but did I help? YES. Was I morally against it...yeah, to a point (kinda hard to not help someone with a nasty throat laceration!..but yeah...I was very angry at him!). I held his friggen trache in place till he was sent to the OR! WHY? Because I can NOT judge..but do the best I can for everyone no matter my own feelings!

DO I regret it ....not really...but part of me is still angry that I helped a horrid person live to do this again! (I have no trust in the justice system).

Will I do it again..yep!

I had to live with this...will have to forever! He lived...and if I hear that he ever did this to another...I feel my hands helped in whatever he does next though!

...

You should not feel any guilt even if he reoffends (as we know most child molesters do). You did your duty as a nurse, as any (well, most) of us would. The same is true for doctors and other HCW.

DeLana

nursen_99

55 Posts

This is pt abandonment. Plain and simple. No need discussing anything else. Now, did anything happen to this embarassment to our profession??????

annmariern

288 Posts

Specializes in vascular, med surg, home health , rehab,.

Good god, we all have taken care of people who have done horrific things and if we are lucky we never know it. Even when we do, unless they are abusive etc, in which case,management should step in and lay down the law, never seems to happen but it should. This is pure and simple racism. As for small town mentality, there are no small towns, information technology makes it impossible to be in a bubble for long. She abandoned another human being who needed her care over their assumed religion? You can't do your job professionally, bye bye. This isn't patriotism its bigotry and we should have no place for it in this job. Can't afford the time.

BSNtobe2009

946 Posts

Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.

She should be more than fired, she absolutely should be reported to the BON and that person needs to get out of the nursing profession.

Expressing racisim in the work place, to me, is a terminable offense because it is offensive to other employees who may be a member of that race (you can't always tell by looking at someone), or may have a spouse, children, or friends that are a member of that race.

Free speech does not exist at work, and I believe the hospital would have solid legal grounds to dismiss her.

BSNtobe2009

946 Posts

Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.
I do NOT agree she should be fired. Were there no alternatives, such as trading patients?

*** Yes, trading patients would have been an option, IF she had not been 1/2 hour late for work and if she had not insisted on making a scene at the nurses station. Had she been on time and asked me to a private discussion and expressed her desire not to care for this particular patient then yes, trading assingments would have been an option.

Jehova's Witnesses will not(at least the ones I have worked with) hang blood or blood products. I have seen them trade patients. I have even seen nurses trade if the patient is a certain kind of convicted criminal!(child molester/sex offender)

*** I suspect that those nurses do not feel the need to make a scene at the nurses station about their limits. They also likely do not accuse their supervisior, CNA and fellow LPN of wanting to "provide aid and comfort to the enemy". This accusation came about simply becuase we even considered providing care to this patient This LPN supervises two CNAs, one of them was the CNA that happend to be at the nurses station.

ALL of us have our limits...FIRE HER!!!!!!!!!!!:icon_roll Where is YOUR tolerance?!?!?!?!? Yes, we were taught in class we would encounter all types of people/classes/cultures, but, if we could not handle one for whatever reason, trade off and then seek the appropriate action

*** I think the key words in your above message are "appropriate action".

so that next time it would not be such an issue...FIRE HER!?!?!?!?!?:eek: :eek: :angryfire I don't THINK so. Discipline her...OK...Maybe a short suspension...But FIRE HER...NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

*** As I said it is not in my power to fire her. I can only make recomendations to the DON, but my recomendation was for her to be fired.

See, I think there is a difference in what the nurse in question did versus what you have listed.

*I would assume a nurse that is a Jehovah Witness and has a religious objection to hanging blood products has a religious reason for doing so against the PROCEDURE not the patient. I am sure this is discussed at an interview, shortly after hiring, and the nurse is consistent....I don't consider this discrimination.

*Refusing to take care of a criminal that is a child molester or a murderer...that is a factual, real and true statement of the patient, that is against their CRIME, not who they are as a person.

What this nurse did was make an assumption based on the visual inspection of a patient and then openly voiced her racism along with refusal to care?

That is what she should get fired for.

What happens next? Does a nurse have the right to say, "Oh yeah, I'm a member of the KKK and I don't take care of any minorities or Catholics because of ".

Heck no that isn't acceptable!

PMFB-RN, RN

5,351 Posts

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
She is from a small town? How many chromosomes is this one toting? How flinstonian.

*** BTW the words she used "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" are the exact words a local outspoken leader of a Penticostal church uses to describe anyone who questions America's involvement in Iraq.

I will also add that until this incident I had pretty high opinion of this LPN and had even written her a letter of recomendation when she applied to nursing school. Until last night I had no idea she held such views. It's also true that we have never had a non-christian as a patient (at least as far as I know).

I found out that the LPN discovered the patients religion not by talking to him, but by reading the dietary form that describes our patients food preferences. It states right on it "No pork, patient is muslim". I intend to speak to the dietary manager about writing a patients religion on the diet order forms. Usually "No meat on Fridays, patient is Catholic" is whats written on them.

ZASHAGALKA, RN

3,322 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care.
*** BTW the words she used "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" are the exact words a local outspoken leader of a Penticostal church uses to describe anyone who questions America's involvement in Iraq.

I will also add that until this incident I had pretty high opinion of this LPN and had even written her a letter of recomendation when she applied to nursing school. Until last night I had no idea she held such views. It's also true that we have never had a non-christian as a patient (at least as far as I know).

I found out that the LPN discovered the patients religion not by talking to him, but by reading the dietary form that describes our patients food preferences. It states right on it "No pork, patient is muslim". I intend to speak to the dietary manager about writing a patients religion on the diet order forms. Usually "No fish on Fridays, patient is Catholic" is whats written on them.

The day the U.S. is at war 'with Islam' is the day we cease to be the nation we are. In fact, we are at war with fascists that hide behind their perversion of Islam. Their leaders aren't concerned with the religion, but the power that they can invoke perverting it to their own nefarious purposes.

Believe me, I feel the SAME way about some that call themselves 'Christian', but, I'm not at war with myself. Case in point: the nurse we are discussing. The Christianity I learned was about leading by example and holding an intrinsic value in all of God's creations. Crossing a criminal or treasonous line is all about what somebody DOES, and not who they are. Otherwise, no religion is safe, not even the ability to be free FROM religion.

Actually, when I joined the military, long ago, I vowed to protect this nation from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. Declaring 'war' on any American is a violation of the SAME Constitutional rights that allow her to hold such an opinion. Her opinions are fully protected by law, her actions to support those opinions are not.

So, I'd have to say that expressing that attitude itself is being an enemy of the state and allowing her to keep her job is the closer definition of 'giving aid and comfort to the enemy'.

~faith,

Timothy.

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