Seasoned nurses eat their young?! - page 4
I am a nursing student, who by the way will graduate in December, and am sick of being eaten alive every time my clinical group hits a new floor. I don't understand how so many hateful people have... Read More
Aug 4, '03Maythen, this is terrible. I know I would have dropped out if I was in your shoes. What they are doing is abuse, pure and simple. AND with complete disregard for your husband's life. I find it appaling that stuff like this actually happens in nursing education. No wonder the nursing profession has problems. I don't know what recourse you have besides complaining to the heads of the school-- maybe complaining to the state nurse's association or the credentialing center of the school? I would definitely talk to a laywer. It is so terrible that you had to go through that.
Aug 4, '03Originally posted by ceecel.dee
If time allows, I like our nurses to challenge the students' "comfort zone" a bit. We find that most students will say,"I've never done that before" when asked if they would like to "cath a real patient" or whatever, content to let the experience of getting over the "first time jitters" slip away. We try to ask "have you had the theory and lab practice" on a particular skill, and, given we have the time (and inclination...can vary from nurse to nurse), we push a little for the actual "hands on"...and have recieved more than a few letters of appreciation (a few weeks to months afterward) about helping them get over their fear.
You students must be able to step up and enthusiastically show a desire to learn! Most nurses are rather nurturing, but the real interest must be shown for us to think our time will be well spent. We really do like to make a difference.:kiss
Aug 5, '03As a nursing isntructor, I work hard to create an anvironment of mutual respect between me and the staff. I have found that when the staff knows that I bring them students who are prepared and ready to learn (or be disciplined by me), then they are much more open to working with the students. They know that if there is a problem, they can pull me aside and let me know, because I value their opinions. I am aware that not all nurses like having students around, and I just try to keep my students out of their areas, not always easy, but I try.
One thing that I have implemented is a "recognition" program. The students can document on a GEM (going the extra mile) form a short thank you to a nurse, staff member, MD, etc.... I forward these to the unit manager, who gives them out at staff meetings in front of all nurses. You'd be surprised how this works to pave the way for future groups, and for nurses to open themselves to working with students. I tell the students that it is not the responsibility of the nurses to teach them, it is my respoinsibility. If the nurse does, then they are going out of their way to help them.
Then, there is always the student that is a pill to be around at clinicals. Some think that I can't teach them anything new as they work as a tech/NA/PCT, whatever. Some just don't want to be nurses, and haven't recognized that yet. Some are just plain lazy. I can deal with all of the above as the teacher. I tell them that they should keep themselves busy 100% of the time that we are on the unit, or I'll be by to begin the quiz session. Usually, that works. The students who are unproductive on the units and don't appreciate clinical time are the ones who are putting themselves at risk for not being successful on state boards. I firmly believe that the more experience that you ahve to draw upon when presented with a board question, the clearer the question becomes.
I can clearly see two sides to the student on the unit issue. As an instuctor, the best thing that I could hear when I arrive on the unit is "Wow, the students are here today. Thank God!"
Aug 5, '03I as a student have come across all types of nurses so far. I do understand the position they're put in because I'm capable of putting myself in their shoes. I've been in similar situations with training individuals for new positions and having a stressful workload on top of it. However, those that are rude will get their due someday. I'm confident of that. I am more amazed by the laziness of some nurses that I've come across. Yes, they do exist.
At first I was very discouraged by the rudeness of some of these people. There are times I wonder how in the world they got their license. But I go in prepared and ask alot of questions to the appropriate people and at the appropriate times.
Also important to remember is that working with all types of personalities is part of the learning process. So after getting "pushed off the horse a few times," just get up, brush off your knees and get right back on. Try to learn to deal effectively with the more "challenging" personalities and it will carry you far into the future.
Aug 7, '03For the most part, I love it when we have LPN students on the floor. They're a big help as far as getting baths and such done and as they progress through their program, they take a good chunk of the patient load. There are certain things that I expect from students though (I expect te same things from seasoned nurses too.) 1. Do what you're there to do and do it right. If you don't know how or for some reason can't, speak up and get some help. 2. Be there to learn, not to show off how fast you can give a bath and get other things done. It's great to be good at what you do and be knowlegeable about what you are doing, but learn something new every day. 3. Treat everyone with the same respect and dignity. The welfare mom with scabies is just as important as the sweet old lady with pneumonia. Don't judge anyone by social staus, disease process, or intelligence. This goes for nurses too...the slender beautiful nurse is no better than the short dumpy looking one (like me!). 4. Be prepared. It's not my job to do your careplan or look up your meds or provide you with a pen and a stethoscope. I'd be happy to help you if there are oparts you just can understand, but I expect you to at least make an effort before you come to me with questions. 5. Be willing and ready to jump in and help. It's amazing what you can learn! :-)
Aug 7, '03Very good posts. All very insightful, some very unsettling. Yes, nursing is a profession that encourages "eating the young." This phenomenon is called horizontal violence and has been explored at length in the literature. Basically, when a group feels oppressed and not valued by society, it turns inward with violence directed towards itself. Very self-destructive. I have found that the worse offenders are very insecure, jealous, and competitive individuals who try to bolster their own poor self-esteem by putting others down. These mean-spirited, hypocritical individuals make "mountains" out of others "mole-hills," whilst they themselves are often guilty of much worse crimes. Sadly, the horizontal violence often begins in nursing programs. This is where I, as a nursing instructor, can make a big difference. I strive to treat each student with respect. I also try to treat each of my fellow instructors with dignity and respect and will not participate in the gossip, rancor that may be going on. (One of my fellow instructors actually tried to destroy me professionally, but I refuse to retaliate or say anything bad about her. God is my defense .)
Aug 7, '03Originally posted by Brownms46
.......what goes around, comes around! One day the Lord might just allow that "woman" and I use the term loosely, to have to ask you for help one day!
That woman checks into the hospital on said nursing student's floor and becomes assigned to her. Said nursing student enters that woman's room and introduces herself as her nurse. :chuckle
To top that off.......just maybe you'll have the chance to have her butt cheeks at the end of one of the shots you'll have to administer one day. :chuckle Give it to her good, nursing student! :chuckle :roll :chuckle
Aug 7, '03Originally posted by VickyRN
........Yes, nursing is a profession that encourages "eating the young."
My my my.......oppression, oppression, oppression......
Aug 7, '03Originally posted by VickyRN
Very good posts. All very insightful, some very unsettling. Yes, nursing is a profession that encourages "eating the young." This phenomenon is called horizontal violence and has been explored at length in the literature. Basically, when a group feels oppressed and not valued by society, it turns inward with violence directed towards itself. Very self-destructive. I have found that the worse offenders are very insecure, jealous, and competitive individuals who try to bolster their own poor self-esteem by putting others down. These mean-spirited, hypocritical individuals make "mountains" out of others "mole-hills," whilst they themselves are often guilty of much worse crimes. Sadly, the horizontal violence often begins in nursing programs. This is where I, as a nursing instructor, can make a big difference. I strive to treat each student with respect. I also try to treat each of my fellow instructors with dignity and respect and will not participate in the gossip, rancor that may be going on. (One of my fellow instructors actually tried to destroy me professionally, but I refuse to retaliate or say anything bad about her. God is my defense .)
Aug 7, '03Good point about nurses eating their OLD too!
Sad but true! We had a nurse only months away from retirement who handled the job very well, but they always seemed to give her the heaviest pt's on the far end of the hall!
I made it a point to offer to help her almost every day if I could.
She always looked pleasantly shocked that she'd get a little help for a change.
Let's not forget what it was like to be young & new and let's not forget to imagine what it would be like to do this job as we age.
Aug 8, '03I understand that floor nurses get frustrated with a constantly revolving set of students that all need help, and who are never around long enough to truly be helpful. I understand that the nurses job would be easier if the student wasn't there. I feel for the plight of the nurse who can't remember whether this is the day that the students pass meds! All of this s@cks!
Several people have posted that they do not feel that they owe anything to students. Of course they don't, but they do owe something to their patients. The clinical instructor may be responsible for the actions of the student, but the floor nurse is responsible for the level of care that is provided. In order to ensure the best level of care possible, the staff nurse should be open to questions and be willing to give input to the student.
I have worked with nurses in the clinical setting who were wonderful. This one male nurse in particular allowed me to observe in proceedures that we had not yet been taught in class, merely because I wanted to have as much actual observation time as possible. He took the time to explain why he was going to do things and how he was going to do them.
On the other side of the spectrum were the nurses who flatly ignored anything that I said to them. Now I know that I am new, and that my assessment skills aren't perfect yet, but I would hope that the nurse would at least look at a patient that I was concerned about. Example. I had a patient with a history of CVA's who had been immobile for a extended period of time. The patient was complaining of lower extremity pain, crying out in pain if her calves were touched. Her feet were also cool to the touch. When I reported these findings to the nurse, she smiled politely at me and went on with what she was doing. She hadn't done a head to toe assessment when she started the shift, and she didn't come to check the patients legs during the rest of my shift. Hello? What am I missing here? The patient was gone the next time that I worked on the floor, and I didn't know who to ask about her progress. I pray that she was alright. I did tell my instructor about the incidence during post conference, and she just talked about how we were new on the floor and had to earn the nurse's trust. TRUST, I'm talking about standard of care here!
Nurses have a difficult and demanding job. I understand that. I have been impressed by the hard work and dedication that I have seen. Our instructor does everything that she can, but there is one instructor for 10 students. That is 20 patients per instructor. I know that students are a pain. But if we are going to be treating people, we need to be able to rely on the nurses around us for guidance. Help us to help you with your work. Your patients will thank you for it
Aug 9, '03"Second, drop the "entitlement" attitude and be aware that NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING"
Gee, there's a great "attitude" right there.
BOY YOU NAILED THAT ONE ON THE HEAD!!! I am sorry but she seemed to have a nursing student hanging out of her mouth where she was getting ready to devour it.
I did not see any attitude in the students post. But my opinion is just that mine.
Aug 9, '03I am an ICU nurse and I was a nursing instructor. I think some people make great mentors while others do not have the "nurturing" instinct. It would be helpful if those nurses who like to take fledglings under their wing would offer their services before the new students hit the floor. I left the patient assignments up to the charge nurses.