Raising minimum wage ..RN Salaries increase?

Nurses General Nursing

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I am trying to wrap my head around ,raising the minimum wage /nursing salaries .In my area CNA 11/hour ,Lpn 17/hour,Rn 25hour .

Recently they mandate RNs to have a 4 year degree ,which costs between 40-200 k.

If minimum wage increases to 15 hr ..this would force an increase..How can you pay McDonald's workers more ..when CNA's are

doing backbreaking work ,nightshift ,leaving thier families on weakends and holidays ? This would force a increase all the way up .I do worry though ..that this will make staffing short /and healthcare insurance prices to rise .

Well, it was a bit tongue in cheek. The statement I was challenging was "Minimum wage increase benefits everyone." I think that is naive, and is probably not shared by all those actually paying minimum wage.

Hypothetical ice cream shop that pays minimum wage to high school students. They have no particularly unique or difficult skills. The owner works his tail off and is not wealthy. The kids who work there don't need a living wage, they need some pocket money. Any more that he pays them is money out of his pocket that won't be helping his kids pay for college.

I don't think he benefits from minimum wage increases. If he did, he would simply raise wages. I am quite sure that there will be some businesses right on the edge of survival that will fold if minimum wage goes up.

That being said, I agree that minimum wage should be raised. Effectively, minimum wage has gone down hugely.

It's just that I accept the fact that economic decisions are complex, and very few benefit everybody. They need to be seen in balance.

This is very much on my mind as a new tax code is being developed. There are people who have made it their life mission to make rich people richer. They are telling me that that with certain changes, everyone, including me, will benefit. While I think it is awesome that they have taken a sudden interest in my well being, I am a bit skeptical.

Very good post! As a small business owner, we will be hiring a few workers to help with the store. If the minimum wage goes up, we will not be able to afford anyone to work there. If we are lucky and we start doing well as a business we may be able to hire one. As you stated, we (my boyfriend and I) worked our tails off to start that business and still work our tails off. We will not get rich from this business. We both still work full time jobs and hopefully he will be able to stop in a few weeks. I won't. I do think there should be a minimum wage, but $15? Minimum wage was not meant to sustain a family. I would rather see opportunities for people to get a skill or go to school and better themselves.

There is a school in CA that charges $170,000 for the BSN program. The tution, from what I hear from current students, is getting ready to increase again.

But graduating from West Coast University should allow one to earn more than minimum wage.

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
Very good post! As a small business owner, we will be hiring a few workers to help with the store. If the minimum wage goes up, we will not be able to afford anyone to work there. If we are lucky and we start doing well as a business we may be able to hire one. As you stated, we (my boyfriend and I) worked our tails off to start that business and still work our tails off. We will not get rich from this business. We both still work full time jobs and hopefully he will be able to stop in a few weeks. I won't. I do think there should be a minimum wage, but $15? Minimum wage was not meant to sustain a family. I would rather see opportunities for people to get a skill or go to school and better themselves.

You are incorrect that minimum wage was not meant to sustain a family. When the federal minimum wage was instituted in the US, the aim was clear by FDR:

"By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level - I mean the wages of a decent living." (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

Minimum wage was never meant to be pocket change for teenagers. It was never meant to be anything less than decent living for families.

FDR went on to say that no business has a right to make a profit off of paying people less than they require to live:

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country." (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

That having been said, given the current large gap in actual minimum wage from necessary minimum wage I think it's fair that we spend some of the revenue we save on welfare costs to subsidize small businesses to start a fair minimum wage. Let the economists figure out how long it will take for the minimum wage boost to feed back into the economy in a way that small businesses no longer need the subsidy and then wean them off it,in a way that maximizes profit and growth.

This needs to be your stance as a small business owner. Nothing else really makes any sense from an informed point of view.

Specializes in Critical Care.
Higher minimum wages equal less jobs available. $15/hr for McDonald's equals a touchscreen to place your order and that burger is going to cost a lot more. Anyone for a $15 value meal?

Raising the minimum wage raises the costs of goods produced primarily by at or near minimum wage workers by between 4 and 5%, which doesn't mean a $15 value meal, it actually adds about 17 cents to the cost of a $4 Big Mac.

Businesses will always seek to reduce their costs, touchscreens are already common despite a historically low minimum wage.

...I'm still in nursing school, but back when I was earning $10.50 an hour, it never occurred to me to continuously demand a higher wage from my employer. Since the wage I desired couldn't or wouldn't be met, I simply moved on and enrolled into college. I can't relate to their mindset at all.

Unfortunately that's not how it really works. The service sector, which primarily consists of near minimum wage jobs, is already the largest employment sector for those with bachelor's degrees. An economy will always have fairly consistent ratios of different sectors, it makes no difference if the entire service sector gets PhDs, all that does is result in a lot of PhD educated Wal Mart workers, which effectively decreases their income, which then adds to amount the general public is having to subsidize WalMart's operating costs.

Specializes in Critical Care.
Very good post! As a small business owner, we will be hiring a few workers to help with the store. If the minimum wage goes up, we will not be able to afford anyone to work there. If we are lucky and we start doing well as a business we may be able to hire one. As you stated, we (my boyfriend and I) worked our tails off to start that business and still work our tails off. We will not get rich from this business. We both still work full time jobs and hopefully he will be able to stop in a few weeks. I won't. I do think there should be a minimum wage, but $15? Minimum wage was not meant to sustain a family. I would rather see opportunities for people to get a skill or go to school and better themselves.

Minimum wage was actually meant to sustain to provide a living wage, including for families. FDR, who initiated the minimum wage, gave this explanation: "no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country".

It's reasonable to have some portion of jobs pay only a token amount, for high school kids working a 1 week job over a break for instance, but this is an extremely small portion of jobs that currently pay or near minimum wage. For instance, more than half of Wal Mart employees depend on some form of public assistance to make up for what WalMart isn't paying. This means that for me as a business owner, I'm paying for my employees to make a living wage and then also paying taxes to pay Wal Mart workers what Wal Mart won't pay them, which isn't how it should work. If you can't pay your employees what they cost then get out of the way for someone who will.

Well, it was a bit tongue in cheek. The statement I was challenging was "Minimum wage increase benefits everyone." I think that is naive, and is probably not shared by all those actually paying minimum wage.

Hypothetical ice cream shop that pays minimum wage to high school students. They have no particularly unique or difficult skills. The owner works his tail off and is not wealthy. The kids who work there don't need a living wage, they need some pocket money. Any more that he pays them is money out of his pocket that won't be helping his kids pay for college.

I don't think he benefits from minimum wage increases. If he did, he would simply raise wages. I am quite sure that there will be some businesses right on the edge of survival that will fold if minimum wage goes up.

That being said, I agree that minimum wage should be raised. Effectively, minimum wage has gone down hugely.

It's just that I accept the fact that economic decisions are complex, and very few benefit everybody. They need to be seen in balance.

This is very much on my mind as a new tax code is being developed. There are people who have made it their life mission to make rich people richer. They are telling me that that with certain changes, everyone, including me, will benefit. While I think it is awesome that they have taken a sudden interest in my well being, I am a bit skeptical.

In the community in which your hypothetical ice cream shop is located, many other minimum wage employees of other local employers would also be making higher wages, and would hypothetically feel financially flush enough to get ice cream out more often. Hypothetically, the ice cream shop owner would have to pay his employees more, but would also see his business increase.

Moreover, your hypothetical ice cream shop probably doesn't just employ high school kids who work for pocket money. That's an argument that is always made in discussions about raising the minimum wage, but the reality is that around half of minimum-wage workers are at least 25 years old. Those are not kids working for spending money. Many of them are attempting to support families.

Minimum-wage workers are older than they used to be. Their average age is 35, and 88 percent are at least 20 years old. Half are older than 30, and about a third are at least 40 ... Many have kids. About one-quarter (27 percent) of these low-wage workers are parents, compared with 34 percent of all workers. In all, 19 percent of children in the United States have a parent who would benefit from the increase ... Their earnings are a big part of their family budgets. The average worker in this group brings home half of his or her household's earnings; 19 percent of those who would get the raise are sole earners. Parents who would benefit from the increase bring home an even larger share of their families' earnings: 60 percent ...

Minimum Wage: Who Makes It? - The New York Times

Undisputed facts about the minimum wage | PBS NewsHour

The average minimum wage worker today is not who you think | MSNBC

Specializes in Critical Care.
The 7 most dangerous myths about a $15 minimum wage - Salon.com
It may sound naive, but it is still true.

Don't take my word for it though.

Look at what happened to our economy when minimum wage was enough for a decent living. FDR was all about this. What happened to our economy when the minimum wage was a living wage, not a wage for pocket change?

We did all benefit.

A lot of people think that the economy of a nation runs the same way as personal finance. The idea is that every time you put money one place, it is taken from another place. That is the way personal finance works.

But that is not the way a national economy works. Economists have proven this, but since it is a political idea about which we all vote, and some people even become morally attached to their ideas, we don't make the best decisions for our economy.

Everyone benefits when money flows, rather than staying stagnant. Minimum wage as the wage of a decent living, fuels the flow of the economy.

I agree 100% with 90% of what you say.

Minimum wage should be raised. But not because everybody will benefit. As a civilized society, we have a responsibility to protect those with less power. And, once one accepts that the concept of a minimum wage is reasonable, (most do), the only question is the number. The current number is pretty indefensible. In reality, the only thing that makes any sense is to decide on a number, and then devise a plan on how that number will adjust along with the cost of living.

I agree that the national economy is not like personal finance- it is more like an ecosystem. And much like an ecosystem, even small changes in one area can cause multiple larger changes. And much like an ecosystem, some will benefit, and some will pay.

The thing is, I don't have to believe that a raise in minimum wage will benefit everybody in order to support it. In fact, I don't even have to believe it will benefit me. I frequently vote for policies knowing it will take money out of my pocket. For example, when I go back to paying my own health insurance, it would save me personally a bundle to be in a pool with other healthy people, yet I still believe that sick people deserve health care, and am willing to pay for it. (Though I would really prefer a plan that makes really rich people shoulder more of the burden, and allow my wife and me a bit more money for retirement.)

The way you explain it is so simple, you would think it would be understood by accountants whose job it is to help other people make money. By your reasoning, those math guys are unable to do the math because of pre existing political bias.

While you and I are probably on the same side on many economic issues, including this one, your argument of trickle up economics sounds very similar to the debunked trickle down argument that is being recycled right now. There are some very wealthy people suggesting that they should get a huge tax cut. They are offering me a small tax cut in the hopes that I will support their plan. And they are downplaying their benefit, and focusing not only how good it will be for me, but how it will help those who need it even more than me. Because they know I care about that.

This is kind of a side track to the original question of how it will affect nursing wages.

I think many people miss the fact that as nurses, we are essentially a commodity, like electricity or hospital supplies. I often hear nurses express a belief that their wages are tied to how well the institution does financially. In reality, nurses are paid by the same laws of supply and demand that govern the price of electricity or IV tubing. In areas where nurses won't work for under $50 an hour, that is what they get. Where nurses are willing to work for $20 an hour, that is what they get.

Whether we will get paid more as a result of higher minimum wage is pretty complex and hard to predict. Some here predict that bumping up the bottom will have an upward ripple effect, and more people will be able to afford education. That may add to the supply of nurses. Or, it could reduce the supply. I suspect that given all the changes in healthcare and insurance, there will be far more effect to the demand side of the equation. And I don't think anybody can accurately predict those changes.

Bottom line is I hope I make more.

Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.

I agree that the idea that ANY economic change of ANY kind will benefit EVERYONE is extremely naïve. I lack the time at the moment to cite studies and articles to shore up my argument, so I will point out an anecdotal but pretty much unarguable point...that the ACA was intended to increase the number of people with insurance by requiring people who work full time to be covered on an employer sponsored health plan....and so now people who are in that "minimum wage" sector and even some in better paying sectors are unable to find full time work. The requirement is being skirted by employers refusing to hire people full time.

My point, rather than muddying the water, is simply that whatever gets put in place, the greedy bastards of the country will find a way around it.

You are incorrect that minimum wage was not meant to sustain a family. When the federal minimum wage was instituted in the US, the aim was clear by FDR:

"By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level - I mean the wages of a decent living." (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

Minimum wage was never meant to be pocket change for teenagers. It was never meant to be anything less than decent living for families.

FDR went on to say that no business has a right to make a profit off of paying people less than they require to live:

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country." (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

That having been said, given the current large gap in actual minimum wage from necessary minimum wage I think it's fair that we spend some of the revenue we save on welfare costs to subsidize small businesses to start a fair minimum wage. Let the economists figure out how long it will take for the minimum wage boost to feed back into the economy in a way that small businesses no longer need the subsidy and then wean them off it,in a way that maximizes profit and growth.

This needs to be your stance as a small business owner. Nothing else really makes any sense from an informed point of view.

I like that idea. But I also think we need to invest on training and education. Granted some people will never want to go to school. Giving money to small business to help them hire people to provide jobs is a great start. Welfare is a dead end imho. The skills I learned at even McDonald's I still used today is nursing. ������ And yes as an adult and post leaving my husband I went to Mcdonalds to get a job. Now look at me. Nurse manager. ������

Specializes in ER.

I want to mention that back in FDRs day the standard of living didn't include smart phones, TVs, cars, artificial nails, expensive tattoos, eating out.

Your average American cooked at home, from scratch. Life was very simple. It wasn't considered basic standard of living to have all the luxuries that we have today. A lot of things have changed since the 1930s in our expectations.

I also doubt that the school sent home a full-page list of supplies that were needed for the school year. Medicine was a comparatively and unsophisticated and inexpensive to deliver, without the massive amount of regulatory oversight that impede us today.

Our standard of living is becoming non-sustainable.

Advocates of increasing the minimum wage generally do so because it is nearly impossible to live on a minimum wage income, even if you work full time, in most parts of the country, not just because they are lazy or greedy. I understand there are economic arguments against increasing it that are somewhat valid, but let's not start painting low-wage workers as welfare queens.

Absolutely, and the post to which you replied is a chilling example of how effective the demonization of unions, and instead, championing corporations uber alles has become. How twisted is it that people will defend making peanuts compared to the millions/billions our corporate overlords are making??? Do people not realize that wages ARE SUPPOSED to increase over time and at one time there was an attempt to at least give the appearance of attempting to mitigate the increasing costs of living? Looks like the philosophy of worker's rights has been effectively snuffed out. Congratulations to us all, I guess?

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