Paramedics are taking our Nursing job! - page 3

I got to beat the dead horse, I'm feeling it today as I read the classified's. Before flaming me to the burn unit, I was the 89th paramedic in Iowa. I got in on the first class opened to general... Read More

  1. by   netglow
    Pffft. Gotta say, it almost sounds like the OP is a troll. The skills list is so ridiculous. Sounds almost like OP just tossed in some procedures easily found on blogs etc... Also suspect is that EDPs quit in protest. This is highly unlikely. If these EDPs left their jobs (in a real situation) it was probably due to being shown the door. Turning blind eye or suggesting you do these procedures would be unethical (again if real). The hospital would never keep employees that could bring down an entire hospital in one lawsuit. And... you can drop any hope of continuing these real/unreal procedure "duties" as your RN license will govern you -- that is should you make it through one clinical. You have just alerted hundreds of thousands of professionals that you intend to work to put patients and co-workers and employers at risk. Good luck keeping any job you might find.

    Have a freakin happy day :wink2:
  2. by   GilaRRT
    Quote from Medic09
    Does that count as nursing research advancing science? Wanna copublish? I could ride down there on days off to massage the data and write it up. :typing
    Awesome, I think we could do it without even traveling. You, tell me when you are going to throw up and note the number of posts/threads, and I will do the same. We can use the average as the general number, plus or minus a couple of standard deviations.
  3. by   FlyingScot
    Anybody else thinking of that South Park episode where the humans from the future came and took all the jobs? "They took ar jobs!" I've been cracking up all day. Where's my plaid flannel shirt?

    http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104259
  4. by   XB9S
    Oh dear, South Park, publication proposals and a discussion about what quantifies ad nauseum, I think it's safe to say that this thread seems to have taken a little deviation from the original topic.

    Can we try to stay on topic (just a little bit) please

    Cheers all
    Sharrie
  5. by   FlyingScot
    Quote from sharrie
    Can we try to stay on topic (just a little bit) please
    Cheers all
    Sharrie
    I tried Sharrie, really I did (see post #12). I think maybe those of us who have seen this topic over and over are trying to insert a little humor to throw some water on the inevitable flame war. Sorry:bowingpur
  6. by   XB9S
    Quote from FlyingScot
    I tried Sharrie, really I did (see post #12). I think maybe those of us who have seen this topic over and over are trying to insert a little humor to throw some water on the inevitable flame war. Sorry:bowingpur
    yes I had spotted that.

    How about a slightly different slant then, it may just refocus the direction and give me a little information about how things work in the US. In the UK our paramedics are now degree level practitioners in their own rights, they attend a university and take Paramedic Science Foundation degree course before they are able to practice. They are registered with the Health Professionals Council and are accountable for their own practice, having to demonstrate professional development, continued education much in the same way we do as nurses. In fact it is fair to say that paramedics are equivalent to registered nurses in thier own specialist field of practice (i.e. pre-hospital). If you suggested to a UK paramedic that he may want to work in a hospital environment and work alongside nursing staff (s)he would be greatly offended. If you suggested that a paramedic could do a similar role to a nurse they would laugh, it is considered as a different profession here and never the twain shall meet.

    How is it different in the US, what type of training do the paramedics have there and why would they want to train as a pre-hospital practitioner and then work in a hospital environment?
  7. by   sbyramRN
    I work in an ER with a Level 1 Trauma center, and there is not one EMT working in the entire unit, much less the entire hospital. I think they might be hired on the flight crew, but do not go out on assignment without an RN with YEARS of ICU experience and ER experience.
  8. by   ryandfd1166
    I am a EMT-I/99 and about to become a paramedic. I have been riding on the ambulance since I was 17 as a Fire Explorer and I now have been in an ER for 2 years. I see that some say that paramedics have a narrow scope and it only takes 6 months to achieve a paramedic. I am from Texas and almost everywhere it takes at least one and a half years to get a paramedic and that doesn't include the 12 week EMT-B class that is mandatory and alot of paramedics here go through an Associate program just like ADN nurses. I know that there is quite a bite of turf war between nurses and paramedics in the ER. I've seen it a lot and I have been pushing at our hospital for some time to allow paramedics to do more procedures. I am not saying that paramedics should take nursing jobs, but work in conjunction with the nurses to improve care. Paramedics have different skills that nurses don't just like respiratory therapists have different skills they can perform. I am not saying that paramedics should be giving propofol or being the primary person dealing with an AMI. Paramedics should assist with these things in what they have been trained in... Like giving life-saving ASA, nitro, providing oxygen, and starting IV's in a patient with an AMI while the nurse is getting paperwork and other fibrogenics ready for transfer (our hospital doesn't have a cath lab). Also, running the fast track (i.e. small lacs, single musculoskeletal injuries depending on the MOI) in the ER with a free charge nurse to assist with a situation that may arise. Even letting a paramedic do intubations with the doc in the room so it can free the doc to analyze the situation or if the doc can't get the tube and BVM ventilations are ineffective. The problem I see in most facilities why nurses are scared of the paramedics is that they are working under the nurses license not the doctors which needs to be changed and is technically illegal by some EMS standards. Paramedics are a good thing to have in the ER especially the experienced ones. Just like some new nursing grads, there will be some new paramedic grads that are not going to have the best critical thinking skills or get the IV on the first try. I think there should be a bridge class for paramedics to work in a hospital setting and should be utilized in every ER as these are the situations we are trained to deal with and can greatly improve care and ER through put. In conclustion I hope this can open some eyes and see that a paramedic is just as important as any other allied healthcare PROFESSONAL!! Whether we are in the streets getting the next patient packaged to bring you or doing the best danm compressions you've ever scene or getting IVs on every patient so you can finish assessments. We are like bread and butter, an ER without us medics, nurses wouldn't have patients and without nurses patients couldn't be released back into the streets to do something stupid again and fall back into out hands.
  9. by   XB9S
    Quote from ryandfd1166
    .........................................

    snip............................. In conclustion I hope this can open some eyes and see that a paramedic is just as important as any other allied healthcare PROFESSONAL!! Whether we are in the streets getting the next patient packaged to bring you or doing the best danm compressions you've ever scene or getting IVs on every patient so you can finish assessments. We are like bread and butter, an ER without us medics, nurses wouldn't have patients and without nurses patients couldn't be released back into the streets to do something stupid again and fall back into out hands.

    Thanks for your perspective, could I just ask why, please don't take this as a criticism I am genuinely interested. As a paramedic you are a pre-hospital expert, the paramedics I have worked with can deal with almost everything that is thrown at them, they pick up and clean off the worst of our patients and then safely transport them.

    Why, when it's pre-hospital that you have trained in and an expert practitioner in would you want to work in a hospital environment?
  10. by   CrufflerJJ
    Quote from sharrie
    Thanks for your perspective, could I just ask why, please don't take this as a criticism I am genuinely interested. As a paramedic you are a pre-hospital expert, the paramedics I have worked with can deal with almost everything that is thrown at them, they pick up and clean off the worst of our patients and then safely transport them.

    Why, when it's pre-hospital that you have trained in and an expert practitioner in would you want to work in a hospital environment?
    From my perspective as a FORMER paramedic (17+ years as a medic, with a couple added years as an EMT-Basic before that) before I went for my accel BSN, I can think some reasons why a paramedic might want to work in the hospital:

    - If you get on at a Level 1 Trauma Center, you'll see a lot more cool "stuff" on a daily basis than you likely would on the street. This could be a big draw for trauma junkies.
    - Possible pay difference (I dunno 'bout this).
    - As a hospital based paramedic, you won't have to wear full turnout gear in mid-August to respond to a structure fire (many medics "swing both ways" & do both fire & EMS).
    - It's something different from street EMS.
    - If a medic is thinking about going into nursing or another medical field, it's a great way to build skills & make contacts.
    - Better lighting when you're taking care of a patient.
    - Help is right there when you need it.
    - Your floor isn't moving under you & your patient as you try to get that darn IV (in a nice stationary room, versus in the back of a medic while bopping along the pot-holed roads).
    - Fewer patient assessments while laying on your back in a muddy ditch, checking out pinned drunks, hoping that another drunk doesn't come along & plow into you all (drawn to the pretty blinking lights).

    ...and...my #1 reason why someone might want to switch from street EMS to hospital based EMS:

    - Fewer people trying to shoot at you on "secure" scenes (no need for concealed body armor like I wore for my last 16 years of medic duty). No need for armored crew cabs on fire or EMS equipment (as are used in some larger nastier Ohio cities). No need to think about "kill zones" as you stand outside a door, knocking to get a response from somebody inside. You probably won't even need a metal flashlight "purely for lighting purposes", a decent folding blade "to open things", or feel the need to carry a 2+ oz canister of OC "to spice up my food."

    The major downside, however, may be the loss of access to those yummy "free goodies" in the EMS room while writing up run reports. No more room temp soft drinks, imitation sandwiches (white bread, 1 thin slice of mystery meat), or stale vanilla wafers from an opened box on the counter.
  11. by   FlyingScot
    Quote from ryandfd1166
    The problem I see in most facilities why nurses are scared of the paramedics is that they are working under the nurses license not the doctors which needs to be changed and is technically illegal by some EMS standards.
    Actually, the only person that works under an RN's license is the RN herself. As the RN it is my responsibility to delegate appropriately. The only time my license would be on the line would be if I had you as a medic do something outside of your SOP in the ER. So if you took it upon yourself to say...hang Propofol (not saying you would) it would be your @$$ in a sling not mine but if I told you to do it then it's all on me. Conversely if you really ***** an IV and there are complications I'm in the clear because it is a procedure within your SOP. Your explanation of what a medic could provide in the ER is very accurate and appropriate. You work within your training to provide care in such a manner that it frees up the RN to do what only the RN can do. In my neck of the woods that's called teamwork. I do not believe that it is acceptable to view the medic/ RN role as interchangeable. They are complimentary and work very well together when egos do not get the better of us.
  12. by   Medic09
    Sharrie,

    In addition to JJ's answer, some of us just want to expand our experiences and help people in additional ways. I work both in the hospital (RN in the ER) and outside (board-certified flight paramedic, search and rescue medic on an EMS certified team, ground rural medic). I can't get my fix in one place. I'm interested in different kinds of patient care and challenges, so I work in both environments. The only time I got my fix in one place was as an army small-team medic. Then I could do trauma, sick call, public health all on the same job.

    Mordechai
  13. by   ryandfd1166
    Quote from sharrie
    :d yes i had spotted that.

    how about a slightly different slant then, it may just refocus the direction and give me a little information about how things work in the us. in the uk our paramedics are now degree level practitioners in their own rights, they attend a university and take paramedic science foundation degree course before they are able to practice. they are registered with the health professionals council and are accountable for their own practice, having to demonstrate professional development, continued education much in the same way we do as nurses. in fact it is fair to say that paramedics are equivalent to registered nurses in thier own specialist field of practice (i.e. pre-hospital). if you suggested to a uk paramedic that he may want to work in a hospital environment and work alongside nursing staff (s)he would be greatly offended. if you suggested that a paramedic could do a similar role to a nurse they would laugh, it is considered as a different profession here and never the twain shall meet.

    how is it different in the us, what type of training do the paramedics have there and why would they want to train as a pre-hospital practitioner and then work in a hospital environment?

    unfortunately i the us paramedic education varies by what the each state requires. in texas there are 3 levels emt-basic, emt-i, and paramedic. all classes are through university and are completion certificate usually. for paramedics you can receive an associates degree (2year) which is the minimum degree for nurses to. after you complete your class we test through national registry of emergency medical technicians both in all of our skills and a computer based test which nether are done at the school you attended so there is helping with extra points so you can pass. most states including texas use the national registry as you grade and issue you your state cert and we are required to do ce's as well. however you do not have to take the national registry if you stay in the state you are certified in because some think the test is to hard to take again and some states don't use the national registry at all and create there own tests.

    as for paramedics working in hospital is solely based on pay and benefits. to be frank paramedics don't make **** in the us. an average paramedic in texas only makes about $34000 or 21000 to start (based on a 40 hour work week) which a new grad nurse starts at $43500 or 26600. plus most fire brigades in the us are cross-trained as paramedics so if you want to be a paramedic you have to be a firefighter. which a good handful of firefighters hate being medics and don't have the same passion as others. most like the hospital setting because you learn more about definitive care and pay is better, but there are a lot of skills that you can't use. most medics including myself are looking to get into nursing or thinking about it and some hospitals like the one i work at will send you through nursing school for free!!!! i have done research in the possibility of transferring my credentials to either the uk or australia and it seems the there is a little more respect and care put toward paramedics and their profession unlike here where healthcare is all about profit to the higher ups. including ambulance companies that will charge you for the sheet that you lay on during transport at triple there cost.

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