Nurses from aborad.... - page 2
So we are being helped by nurses from abroad../????? Do you remember how Mcdonalds and Burger king ran out of employies. What did they do? does anyone at McDonalds speak english anymore? Am I... Read More
Aug 22, '02Occupation: RN Case Manager Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 4,945; Likes: 27Alan, I'm sorry, I've got to pick on the thread title...
When I read, "Nurses from aborad" I thought, damn! Another foreign country that I have no clue where it's located! Man, my geography sucks! Where the heck is Aborad? I was actually going to do a search until I came in here. :chuckle
Aug 22, '02Occupation: RN. Neuro ICU Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 449; Likes: 3lol,,, true I spelled it wrong. somtimes I viewas a lost art. If I really cared I guess i could use .. I'll fix it.
Aug 22, '02Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387sjoe, we do have American nurses here. Though, I don't know if it counts because it's Canada. But you can't tell me there aren't a lot of American nurses going overseas to work. A friend is currently in SArabia.
Aug 22, '02Occupation: research nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 1,878; Likes: 44I worked with some INCREDIBLE nurses from the Philipines. I was the only American citizen at my last job before this one. They were WONDERFUL nurses. But they had been sponsored by the agency that brought them to America.
I don't know how overtly the agency threatened them, but let me tell you that none of these nurses had any self-esteem worth anything. I was a BAD influence as far as the agency was concerned, because I kept encouraging them to leave and find better jobs. Why?
The nurse who precepted me? The one with five years' experience there? AND a BSN (not that I think that matters, truly, but there is no way to say this particular woman was less qualified than ANY other particular nurse)? THAT nurse... Made a full $4.00 an hour less than I was making.
$4.00 an hour is more than $8,000 (eight THOUSAND) a year less money.
I'm all for everybody who wants to be a nurse being a nurse WHERE-EVER they want to be a nurse. But I don't see how it helps ANYBODY when people are willing to work for substandard wages, and put up with substandard working conditions.
Heh heh, I got in there and radicalized as many of the nurses as I could, but I couldn't stand being a profit point for that agency, so I left in less than 4 months.
Aug 22, '02Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387Maybe my view is tainted a bit because our foreign nurses are members of the same union with the same rights, and they can only apply for jobs that haven't been filled by nurses already working here. Seems like the problem you all have is with the system, not the foreign nurses.
Aug 22, '02Occupation: research nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 1,878; Likes: 44Originally posted by fergus51
Maybe my view is tainted a bit because our foreign nurses are members of the same union with the same rights, and they can only apply for jobs that haven't been filled by nurses already working here. Seems like the problem you all have is with the system, not the foreign nurses.
I wish it could be that way everywhere. But here, that's the way it went. Plus the nurses I worked with did all the overtime they could physically *possibly* handle, (which again, I don't have a problem with per se) which solved another problem for management
Aug 22, '02Occupation: Between positions on medical leave Joined: Jan '00; Posts: 71; Likes: 1Short staffing is a facilitys way of saying they will not pay to have a RN work.
Health care orginizations will not pay more unless they have too.
We are in a capitolistic economy:
short supply (should) = increased compensation
Why is it that nursing fails to follow this rule?
(Hint it does follow this rule)
When compensation for RN stress and work (known to some as pratice) is "worth it." Supply will increase and demand will level out.
Aug 23, '02Occupation: research nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 1,878; Likes: 44Oh Lordie - another subject I don't understand.
Norbert, I didn't follow you - could you please explain about how short supply should = increased compensation and that nursing doesn't fail to follow the rule?
I sort of understand about supply and demand, because, although I don't LIKE it, I can UNDERSTAND how big time athletes and singers and actors get paid so much. But I'm not understanding this bit of it.
Oh *sigh* It's almost 0915 - I was supposed to be at work at 0900 and I'm not. I'm too depressed to shower. I wonder if I should just call in "Funky"
Aug 23, '02Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387When demand for something increases because of a short supply, competition for that thing (nurses in this case) should drive up prices. Frankly, I don't think money will get all those nurses back. A lot of places in the US have wages that I consider to be excellent, but it's all relative. I consider 40K a year to be perfectly reasonable for a nurse.
Aug 23, '02Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387So my next question is why aren't people working to change the system instead of just stating that immigrants will turn nursing into a MacDonald's profession? Our American nurse actually complained about all the red tape she had to go through to get liscenced and take a job here. Why isn't it the same in the US? Unionize, organize, do something!
Aug 23, '02Occupation: Retired Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in Corrections, Psych, Med-Surg ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 2,246; Likes: 48fergus51--I didn't state that no US nurses were working in SA. Some nurses I know have worked there (and they seem to believe that if ANYTHING at all goes wrong in the SA hospital while they are there, "the foreigner" gets blamed for it).
I even made a point of saying that a few countries can and do offer more money for certain specialties (and that includes SA). BUT I haven't seen any indication that people in those countries are complaining about US nurses taking these positions, and I also stated this.
AND the number of US nurses working in SA is tiny, compared to the number of foreign nurses working in the US, as I pointed out.
Look before you leap.
As far as your later posts are concerned, "It isn't just about the money," (though $40K certainly is NOT an adequate income for those of us who live in cities and/or are raising families). Some of us don't choose to be treated like unskilled workers, or dogs, regardless of the pay.
You might check out the other related thread suggested above for further discussion of these issues.Last edit by sjoe on Aug 23, '02
Aug 23, '02Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387It's not about the money is exactly what I am saying there sjoe. And I understand that 40K in San Diego is different than in a town outside of California's high cost of living. I just don't believe that 2.7 million nurses are out of the profession just because of the money like Norbert was saying, or that if nurse wages increased we would suddenly see them all coming back. I just don't believe there are enough American nurses WILLING to be nurses right now despite the fact that nursing does offer SOME good opportunities. Nurses who don't like their schedules can go agency, they can become travel nurses to make more money, they can go into advanced practice or education or administration, etc. But there still aren't enough working right now. Whether that can be changed with better wages or working conditions is one thing to debate, but the fact that immigrant nurses are needed to provide care right now is another.
And I understand that fewer US nurses go overseas, I never said there were more overseas than there were foreigners in the US, but if you want that right then you can't always complain about the devil foreigners coming to the US. They have to write the same exam you did, and if you don't want them working in your hospital you can try to do something about it. See my above post: What is anyone posting on this thread doing about it?Last edit by fergus51 on Aug 23, '02
Aug 23, '02Occupation: RN, Elderly Mental health Joined: Jun '01; Posts: 3,115; Likes: 51Re the "Acceptable " foreigners in post #8. When I visit the States, I have to go through the "Aliens" gate like any other foreigner. US nurses coming to the UK have to meet our standards, and that is how it should be, wherever you are from, or go.
To Norbert, I would only comment that a basic tenet of capitalism is that you keep your profit as high as you can, and your costs (nurses' pay) low as you can.