LPN'S Supervising RNs'? How would you feel? - page 3
I would like to start out by saying that I do respect LPN's and I am in favor of advancing in everyones careers. I am an RN on a PCU. Our hosp changed the "directors" title to Clinical Care... Read More
Sep 17, '06Quote from banditrnI absolutely agree that competancy and proficiency is something you can't put a price on nor do RN's have a corner on the market. But there are policies and laws we must as RN's or LPN's follow. I once worked at a hospital who demoted all the nurse managers to staff nurses who were not BSN educated....some of these were long-term employees, with over 20 years of experience and very seasoned. In their place, because of policy, new managers were hired with the right initials after their names but hardly comparable in their hands-on experience. I am an ADN nurse, now in my 40's and seeing myself get passed over for promotion in spite of 15 years of experience in the OR as well as an additional 9 years prior to that as a surgical tech.Yes, education is important - up to a point. After that, experience takes over. I don't care as much about the # of letters after a name as I do about a nurse's proficiency in what they are doing.
This past year I had to answer to a DON superviser who had no surgical experience but got hired over other, more qualified applicants because she was friends with the VP of Clinical Operations. Within 3 months, after making everyone's life miserable, she resigned, realizing she was over her head. Her resume came across my desk where I am now employed and I was appalled at the blatant lies she was telling about her extensive surgical nursing experience....we put it in the circular file.
Now, again, I find myself with a supervisor who is also an ADN, barely 3 years out of school, no other nursing experience in the OR except the present job where she is now doing conscious sedation and some circulating. Unfortunately she is very intimidated by my coworker and me as we both have extensive OR and nursing experience. My co-worker and I cannot believe that we are being supervised by someone who is not even aware that she doesn't know what she doesn't know. Instead of allowing us to work as a team, this supervisor is not interested in letting us all learn from the other. Instead she is sabotaging our work, taking credit for what we do, telling the physicians that the other nurse is "a trouble-maker", and basically creating as much drama as possible to force us to resign. She has already offered to write us both a glowing letter of recommendation. The other nurse and I have got her number and are not allowing her to get away with this and have made the physician aware of what he has been suspecting for a long time.....that she is poisoning the staff and behind all the turn-over. He has assured us he will take care of the problem. I am waiting to return to work this week and find out how that went.
My feeling is that experienced or not, an LPN cannot legally supervise an RN and there are good reasons for this in the clinical setting. However, as we all know, corners are being cut everywhere in the healthcare industry and I would bet that it's part of the reason some places are allowing this to happen.
Sep 20, '06As an LPN that idea may work for you. However, in today's litiginous society it isn't only the MD who gets creamed. More and more the RN is named specifically named. I don't know how it works in your state, but in some states the MD is responaible for the MA and the LPN. If there is no RN on duty the MD would be responsible for the LPN , the MA, the CNA, etc. However, I don't think anyone other than the MD could be sued. If there is an RN on duty she can be named in the suit personally. This is not true for the LPN or certificate personnel.
Sep 20, '06Quote from stinkerbelleIt's litigious.However, in today's litiginous society it isn't only the MD who gets creamed.Quote from stinkerbelleLPNs can be sued. LPNs have been sued previously.If there is an RN on duty she can be named in the suit personally. This is not true for the LPN or certificate personnel.
It would be wondrous if you had factual information. I'm yawning.
Sep 20, '06ok..I am a LPN. I was put in the position of 'house supervisor' while working at a LTN facility several years ago. The RN whom I surpervised said nothing about the fact I was 'in charge' of the 94 bed facility while working with me. She was not allowed to carry narc keys, she could only give narcs in my presence, and was not allowed in the med room without me being there. Those were not my rules but the DON. I respected her knowledge and experience, she respected mine.
A year or so went by, she completed her rehab and went to work for a local hospital. Not knowing she was working there, I applied for and was hired as a staff nurse. Much to my surprise, my first night at work she was my charge nurse. We worked together for 5 years before she found a different job she liked more.
Before she left she thanked me for the understanding and support I had shown her when she was getting back into nursing. She said many of her fellow RN's would treat her like she had the plague the first year back in nursing and she was ready to give nursing up.
She said what changed her mind was the way I accepted she had messed up, yet helped her to regain her self respect, gain respect of co-workers, and provided a positive role model for her.
Now, what is more important, having someone who does a supervisory job well and all workers give their 110% while at work........... or someone with all the letters after their name, work is chaotic, and staff relations are down in the dump and patient care does not get done?
Sep 20, '06Of course LVN's can be sued and the MD's do not govern our practice (in Texas anyway). Now this is not true for MA's they must work under the MD. It does not matter If I work under, with or for a RN if I screw up my rear is in the red.
Quote from stinkerbelleAs an LPN that idea may work for you. However, in today's litiginous society it isn't only the MD who gets creamed. More and more the RN is named specifically named. I don't know how it works in your state, but in some states the MD is responaible for the MA and the LPN. If there is no RN on duty the MD would be responsible for the LPN , the MA, the CNA, etc. However, I don't think anyone other than the MD could be sued. If there is an RN on duty she can be named in the suit personally. This is not true for the LPN or certificate personnel.
Sep 20, '06Quote from txspadequeen921Of course LVN's can be sued and the MD's do not govern our practice (in Texas anyway). Now this is not true for MA's they must work under the MD. It does not matter If I work under, with or for a RN if I screw up my rear is in the red.
It's the same in Florida. Nurses are self-governed, not governed by MDs. Although here LPNs are supervised by RNs, one rarely hears of an RN loosing their license over what an LPN does, the LPN is accountable for their own scope of practice,(which btw does not included supervising RNs), and can get burned at the stake at the BON or a court of law all by themselves.
Sep 20, '06Quote from PilotboyThought the question was how would you feel, not what would you do.I'd quit!
Sep 20, '06I just find this fascinating. I was an LPN for years.... just got my BSN... I did it for personal satisfaction and I don't really see a problem w/ any NURSE... be it an lpn or rn... as long as she/he knows her stuff... As far as a clinical disagreement, ... It is my liscense, not her's/his... I would call the attending MD and let him/her decide the course of care for his/her pt. I worked too long and too hard to get where I am . I am so done w/ this lpn/rn debate that rears it's ugly little head. I take into consideration the person, their skills, judgement.... I don't really care if they are degreed....
It is kind of like my opinion about dogs.... an AKC dog is fabulous....and so is a mutt.... both loveable....both can have fleas....
now....I couldn't give a rat's tushy..... I am a nurse and ohhhh, if it is a legal issue that is really at issue then perhaps everyone should get out the BON book and check out your scope of practice as it applies to yuor state.... love to all nurses.....
Sep 20, '06I have been a LPN for 30 years and held positions of ADON, Staff Development, Clinical Nurse Manager and Nurse Care Manager.
Yes I have supervised RN'S. BUT, a clinical decision made by an RN cannot be overidden by a clinical decision made by an LPN. I was in the position to hire, staff, schedule, disclpine(under the direction of my DON) and terminate. I have educated many RNs new out of school with their appreciation. I think the position referred to probably follows similar guidelines. Legally I do not think an LPN can supervise RNS clinically.
Sep 20, '06I think you are confusing supervising administratively with supervising medical procedures.
The hospital administrator is the 'supervisor', yet he is not a nurse. And if you were the Director of Nursing, with your MSN, you would report to someone who is not a nurse at all, but got his MBA from Yahoo U.
And guess what, at the end of the day you all work under your own license.. LPNs and RNs... and you are responsible for your own actions under whatever nursing practice standard you are held under. You wouldn't want the hospital administrator to start an IV either, after all