If you are drunk, don't drive!

Nurses General Nursing

Published

If you are a nurse, and you drive while you are drunk; the Board of Nursing can suspend your nursing license for good!!! This is hard to believe...but it is true!!!!

Specializes in Cardiac, Acute/Subacute Rehab.
And of course .... if someone has a DUI they must be drunk at work. WHAT? And of course ... to force someone to have morality you threaten them - in this case with taking their license away. HUH? Truly illogical conclusions to justify a truly unethical practice.

-S

I never said that is someone has a DUI they must be drunk at work. You assumed that. Separate the DUI issue from clinical ability. The MINDSET is still the same. IF you're holding your OWN self (without the involvement of anything or anyone else) accountable for the drinks you had at a Christmas party or at happy hour with your colleagues, there's NO NEED for anyone else to hold you accountable. But, if someone cannot exercise that good judgment and hold themselves accountable for any repercussions, do you just expect to sweep it under the rug? Where's the demand for integrity?

I agree that not all circumstances are the same. But, expecting some sort of acceptable moral code (and integrity...personal accountability) of nurses (of anyone, really) is illogical? Seriously?

Specializes in Government.

Since I work with driver's licenses all day long (DOT nurse) I wanted to add something else to the discussion. I just finished a review of the prohibitions for being a school bus driver in my state. The list is 10 pages long. About 75% of those things are completely not driving related. Any felony convictions. Most misdemeanors too. By record check, it is harder to get a school bus driver's license than it is to teach children or be a nurse in my state.

I'm not saying that this is right. But many professions have standards above and beyond the minimal licensure.

The credit check stuff? Creeps me out.

Specializes in SRNA.

of course it is illogical. how would one do that? who is qualified to determine what the proper moral code is for nurses? for anyone? certainly not the people who run the licensing board. how would one prove that a person is acting morally or not? the courts can't determine this - how would a nursing board determine this? this would be an epic undertaking. instead, the nursing board moronically decided that a DUI is the equivalent of a moral judgment. laws do not govern morality, obviously. such open stupidity should be grounds for termination from such a job. this behavior is appalling.

Specializes in ICU/CCU, CVICU, Trauma.

"the nursing board moronically decided that a DUI is the equivalent of a moral judgment. laws do not govern morality"

Actually, they do. Take a really close look at your State Board's laws. Whether you agree or not, you are bound by them. If you disagree that much, you have the option to leave the profession.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
"the nursing board moronically decided that a DUI is the equivalent of a moral judgment. laws do not govern morality"

Actually, they do. Take a really close look at your State Board's laws. Whether you agree or not, you are bound by them. If you disagree that much, you have the option to leave the profession.

Yep, many BON have defined a minimum standard of morality.

In some states it's a felony conviction, in others this might include a DUI. Yes, it might catch the person who drank a couple of glasses of wine at a Chrsitmas party that is an outstanding nurse in every way, but it's their minimum standard.

BTW the 0.08 that most states now use is not a moral judgement. It's based on scientific evidence that a person is too impaired to drive at this level. Every body is different. Most people who claim they are fine after a few drinks, probably would indeed not perform 100% if they were put to the task under observation because we tend to overestimate our abilities. People with high tolerances, like alcholics, as was mentioned live a 0.08 and probably aren't impaired at all, but still have no business driving after drinking.

So to the excellent nursing innocently drinking a couple of drinks after work, or at a Christmas party, think twice.

Specializes in SRNA.

We are talking about apples and oranges here. The state boards "laws" are not the same as actual legal laws. Just like the laws of physics are different than the state boards "laws". They are different.

Yes - everyone has the option to tuck-tail and run when faced with an authority in the wrong. The idea that laws are absolute and correct just because someone has written them down is terrifying and quite the opposite of how we do things in America.

-S

Specializes in ICU/CCU, CVICU, Trauma.
We are talking about apples and oranges here. The state boards "laws" are not the same as actual legal laws. Just like the laws of physics are different than the state boards "laws". They are different.

Yes - everyone has the option to tuck-tail and run when faced with an authority in the wrong. The idea that laws are absolute and correct just because someone has written them down is terrifying and quite the opposite of how we do things in America.

-S

Last time I looked, I did work in America (although on a busy day in the Trauma ICU with 15 family members setting up Aero beds in the waiting room I might think differently). And I'm not terrified.

Specializes in SRNA.

Wow - so you are saying that laws are absolute and should not be challenged? It's good that you admitted that. Now I totally understand your point of view. Some are leaders and some are followers. I get what you are saying. From my point of view such a state of affairs would be truly terrifying but we don't have such a system in America, although it can feel that way from time to time.

-S

Specializes in ICU/CCU, CVICU, Trauma.
Wow - so you are saying that laws are absolute and should not be challenged? It's good that you admitted that. Now I totally understand your point of view. Some are leaders and some are followers. I get what you are saying. From my point of view such a state of affairs would be truly terrifying but we don't have such a system in America, although it can feel that way from time to time.

-S

If you want to be what you believe a leader is, take your sarcasm and challange the laws. Offer a solution. Don't just say something is wrong. I wish you the best. But for the time being, you are working under these laws.

Specializes in SRNA.
Yep, many BON have defined a minimum standard of morality.

Sadly - well I guess not sadly - I have read my states nursing laws in detail for a couple of school projects. The phrase "good moral character" shows up a number of times, but what that means is not defined - mainly because it would be nearly impossible to do so. Even if an attempt were to be made it would be as thick as a phone book and wide open for debate.

It's one thing to put ambiguous wording in your rules or "laws" but it is quite another to punish people based on ambiguity.

BTW the 0.08 that most states now use is not a moral judgement. It's based on scientific evidence that a person is too impaired to drive at this level.

Exactly! A legal judgment is not a moral judgment - although the can coincide.

-S

Specializes in SRNA.
If you want to be what you believe a leader is, take your sarcasm and challange the laws. Offer a solution. Don't just say something is wrong. I wish you the best. But for the time being, you are working under these laws.

Sorry - wasn't trying to be sarcastic! Really! We just have different point of views on this topic. When I see things that are wrong I wish to point it out and change it and talk about it. I just don't agree with going along with it. You do, as do many, and I respect that opinion. No offense intended - really!

-S

Specializes in Cardiac, Acute/Subacute Rehab.
It's one thing to put ambiguous wording in your rules or "laws" but it is quite another to punish people based on ambiguity.

Do you really need a law to define word for word what is morally acceptable? You would think common sense would tell you that a professional (in ANY industry) should be held to a standard if they fail to do so themselves. Whether or not "good moral character" is plainly defined anywhere, in any state's nursing laws, is irrelevant.

The courts CAN determine the morality of someone's actions. Murder, theft, arson...

Piper, I want to be sure I understand you. 'Cause I'm having a hard time. Do you think the BON should NEVER have the right to revoke your license after multiple DUI's? After the first? After the second? Do you not agree that a nurse (or anyone) with multiple DUI's is a train wreck waiting to happen? Or are you SO caught up in wanting to fight "The Man" that you're willing to deem the lack of responsibility from a healthcare PROFESSIONAL as their right to be irresponsible?

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