Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb

LEN-RN · Jul 30, 2009

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"Why do people equate government sponsored insurance with limited access and choice? There isn't any evidence for this at all - it is a fear tactic being perpetuated by those who do not have all the facts."
Wrong. Tell me which docs are willing to "jump" through government hoops (and I mean the ones that are seriously good and seriously busy practices--who TURN AWAY patients). I know those docs are already saying, "I don't have to participate, therefore I won't." THOSE are MY docs. I don't want someone who is going to see me as "#7370303000403020030403--you can go in now." I DON'T THINK SO.
I will not--and I mean WILL NOT--be on anyone's waiting list.
My fave ortho surgeon has his PICK of patients--he's that damn good and I know two IM docs who don't take ANY insurance. AT ALL.
They have minimal overhead and explain to their patients that they are responsible for paying out of pocket. These two docs make house calls too.
Yes, I admit I live in a region where this exists.
But I tell you again, I am NOT going to wait because I've never had to and I'm not starting now.

I learned long ago to never say never. I am sure many of newly unemployed upper middle class would agree. No one knows what the future holds. No one.

PatricParamedic · Jul 30, 2009

i don't pretend to know the answers, but . . . it ain't rocket science to recognize a few contributing factors to the chaos:

once upon a time in the land of plenty, a kindly uncle let the doctor-children build their own house & make their own rules. and all the kids with stethoscope toys were gleeful, because they knew that, if you get to make the rules, you usually win the games.

so a big, fancy medical tree-house was built by all the doctor-kids, and they formed the very first tree-house club. they cleverly ma lots of tricky, sneaky parts to it that could hurt you (in case some outsider tried to climb up the tree)

the kids weren't thinking at all about sagas like, lord of the flies - or that nature designs hierarchies because they perform the ultimate function, which is to control its destiny at all costs. that includes beating the hell out of anything that doesn't feed the hierarchy-machine. by carving out their niche in the tree, the new club members could throw apples at any fool trying to challenge upper echelon. it was totally cool.

it wasn't long before the boys in the tree-house were kings of the world, and because they had all the apples, they were pretty-well fed - fed to the point of gluttony. hundreds of thousands of unnecessary surgeries; trampling all over the nurses who tended the garden below; they rained down pesticide to kill off the nuisances of midwifery, acupuncture, chelation, vitamins, alternative care, and may other clubs that had gathered in their own smaller trees, thinking they were important. they vowed to crush any threat to the kings (and the rare queen) of their tree-house.

billions of dollars were gathered up, and the tree-house became a castle in the sky - wealth beyond measure for those few who ruled the roost. the source of those billions? the minions who needed apples to survive, and the deepest of deep-pockets indeed, big, tall, gangly rip van winkle, the sleeping, generous "uncle insurance," napping just under the tree.

but one day the tall, gangly uncle woke up. and when he did, he grew very, very angry when he realized somebody had ransacked his pockets and taken his watch and wallet. he had trusted the kids in the tree to only take a few dollars for a tree-house. how - pray tell - could they have gotten so greedy during his nap? so he demanded an explanation:

$37 billion a year wasted, on some strange thing called "medical errors." what did that mean?

$19,400 gone, from each surgical foreign body left inside people. huh?

1,142 doctors behind bars. (doctor-kids in prison? in america?)

195,000 innocent patients dying who shouldn't?

doctors performing fake surgeries on the mentally impaired?

private insurance companies bilked by false coding to the tune of billions? what?

medicare insurance pillaged by more than 450 doctor-kids nationwide?

3,500 hospitals investigated?

doctors having sex with their patients & billing insurance for the "treatments?" are you kidding me?

doctor-kids hiding the bad doctor-kids so the grownups can't spank them?

physicians sued 100 times still allowed membership in the tree-house?

hospitals allowing a surgeon-kid with a lawsuit history to surgically implant a screwdriver into a poor patient's cervical spine?

doctor-kids defending another doctor-kid who murdered his wife & buried her in a basement?

doctor-kids allowed to slap, grope, molest, insult, badger & murder nurse-kids?

a new york doctor-kid blowing up a building to spite his wife?

well, needless to say, uncle insurance got very, very angry. he got a big stick and he kicked & screamed & broke furniture & smashed all the windows in the tree-house. all the doctor-kids started jumping out of the tree and running around. some were ashamed, but others were defiant. they said they had a right to do whatever they wanted. they did write the rules, you know.

but gee, look at all the apples falling out of the tree. and now the lawn's a big mess, and how are we ever going to clean it up?

is there a moral to this story? well, maybe. my dad said, maybe the moral is, we shouldn't let kids build a tree-house without adult supervision. somebody could get hurt.

and i said to my dad, even i know it's not too smart to steal money from a sleeping giant.

Fuzzy · Jul 31, 2009

My insurance is not a luxury. I work. I pay for it. My decision, not the government. Maybe others should do the same. BTW, my wife and I have had Blue Cross/Blue Shield since we were married. We wouldn't have children if we had no way to cover them. Our children are our responsibility, not yours.

I tried to get Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I was turned down. Pre-existing conditions. You know. I tried 25 years ago when I was younger and I tried 5 years ago when I was older. Nothing has changed. I have both rejection letters too.

Fuzzy

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Jul 31, 2009

Moderator's friendly reminder: Please stop sparring and keep to the subject at hand. Please avoid personal insults and debate the issues. Thank you.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jul 31, 2009

Closed for Admin review.

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Aug 1, 2009

All off topic posts have been deleted and thread is now reopened. Please debate the topic at hand and avoid personal attacks. If you feel a poster has attacked you, do not respond, but use the triangular report feature instead. Thank you

lamazeteacher · Aug 1, 2009

[color=#40007f][color=#40007f][color=#40007f]halleluyah!! it stopped ticking!! :nurse:

[color=#40007f][color=#40007f]finally, the hard won health care bill got through!

[color=#2200cc]dems win approval of health bill in committee - yahoo! finance

[color=#40007f][color=#40007f]by david espo and erica werner, associated press writers david espo and erica werner, associated press writers 1 hr 1 min ago

[color=#40007f]washington – in a triumph for president barack obama, democrats narrowly pushed sweeping health care legislation through a key congressional committee friday night and cleared the way for a september showdown in the house. the 31-28 vote in the house energy and commerce committee, along party lines, was weeks later than either the white house or democratic leaders hadhoped.

[color=#40007f]as part of a last-minute series of changes, the committee agreed to cap increases in the cost of insurance sold under the bill, and also to give the federal government authority to negotiate directly with drug companies for lower prices under medicare.

[color=#40007f]the new provisions were part of an intensive effort democrats made in recent days to satisfy the conflicting demands of liberals and conservatives on the panel, unity necessary to overcome a solid wall of republican opposition.
[color=#40007f]"we have agreed we need to pull together," said rep. henry waxman, d-calif., the committee chairman who presided over hours of private negotiations and public committee meetings. five democrats opposed the bill.
[color=#40007f]the measure is designed to extend health insurance to millions who now lack it, at the same time it strives to slow the growth in medical costs nationwide — obama's twin goals.

[color=#40007f]while the pace of action was slower than party leaders had hoped, it was speedier by far than the timetable in the senate.
[color=#40007f]there, democrats said a deadline of sept. 15 had been imposed on marathon talks aimed at producing a bipartisan compromise. several officials said sen. max baucus, d-mont., had informed fellow senators he intends to convene his finance committee to begin voting by then.

[color=#40007f]...under the bill, insurance companies would be required to sell coverage to all seeking it, without exclusions for pre-existing medical conditions. the federal government would provide subsidies for lower-income families to help them afford policies that would otherwise be out of their reach....

jbluehorseh · Aug 1, 2009

just remember something people whether we are taxed or pay for it with hire premiums we all pay for it in the end. the public system is the best idea, it easy to stand there and whine about paying for someone you don't know when you have a job (a job that pays well) and insurances. think about it the next time a patient leaves ama because he/she does not want a bill they can not pay; even better lay off's or better yet closing of a hospital

StatBlues · Aug 1, 2009

http://www.rallycongress.com/the-national-912-petition/

I am sending the following link to many people, some of whom I know what they think and some of whom I do not know, but it is something that is too important to stay quiet about. The above link takes you to a site that contains many petitions to sign. The one that I am focusing on today is the one that is the first one on the list "Please Vote No On Universal Health Care". I urge you to sign the petition and then click the link to send it to your Representative and Senators. Do it even if you think it will do no good. The more they hear from us, the more they will have to listen.

For those of you who are not aware of what is contained in the present health care bill as it has been presented in the House of Representatives, please let me give you some of the highlights, things that the Obama administration and the Pelosi majority do not want we the people to know:

Page 22 - mandates the government will audit the books of all employers that self-insure

Page 29 - rations your healthcare; essential benefits are defined and there is an annual limitation of $5,000/individual and $10,000/family

Page 30 - the "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide what treatment/benefits you receive

Page 317 - government can prohibit a hospital from expanding

Page 341 - gives government the authority to disqualify certain plans, i.e. Medicare Advantage (Medicare Part B)

Page 353 - sets limitations on enrollment of special needs individuals

Pages 769-770 - Family Planning Services (code phrase for government funded abortion)

And from the text of the bill itself:

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.-Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ''grandfathered health insurance coverage'' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.-

(A) IN GENERAL.-Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance

13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED.-Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

What the above essentially says is that you can keep your present coverage until something happens that you no longer have it. Once that happens, you are out of luck. Look at the sentence under (A) and beginning with 13 it says that there will be no new enrollees allowed in any existing programs. Also there is a provision that 5 years post it becoming law, every insurance program must undergo a government review so the government can determine whether or not it is providing the coverage that the government thinks it should be providing. How is that any different than having the government plan?

The following is an overview of the present House bill:

http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf

Or if you are really brave and have a lot of reading time available here is the link to the entire bill:

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Here is a link to the Republican alternative:

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Here is a link to a site that is trying to not only get the word out, but also propose alternatives:

http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/

If this was not such an important issue, if it did not affect us all so very much, I would not be appealing to you. Please prayerfully consider signing the petition. There is a better way of addressing the difficulties in health care that exist. We need to fight against the lies that are being told about how the Republicans do not have an alternative plan, about how there are 47 million Americans without sufficient health care when the actual number is closer to 10 million (many in the most quoted number are illegal aliens, those who are eligible for Medicaid and just haven't signed up or those who choose not to purchase health insurance for whatever reasons they might have.)

jdub3 · Aug 1, 2009

I do not know a single physician at the hospital in which I work who supports this. Nor do I know a single RN that does either. Only on this forum, the usual media outlets and our liberal elitist are wanting this.

Oh yeah: Does anyone want to go into the funeral business with me? I.E. buy land for graves or just start a chain of funeral homes. I got this feeling business will get really good in this area if this socialized heathcare passes.

belgarion · Aug 1, 2009

My biggest concern was and still is the effect ons mall business, especially farming. Yes, family farms are a business although the current administration has made it clear that the problems of agriculture are at the bottom of the priority list. In particular, I am concerned about the requirement regarding employers being REQUIRED to offer insurance to employees or pay an additional tax.

I am involved in a farming operation. All of our "employees" are family members and all of us are covered under group policies administered under a coop. So why should we have to pay an additional fee so we can offer insurance to people who don't need it? Yes, it costs money simply to be able to offer health insurance. Or why should we have to pay what is essentially a surtax?

We have enough burdens already. People hear that we sell a crop for half a million dollars but after expenses and mandatory government programs, we do little better than the average factory worker. If we make so much money why do I work in health care?

I might could get behind a program that doesn't cripple small business. Unfortunately, this bill doesn't seem to be what I had in mind.

lamazeteacher · Aug 1, 2009

just remember something people whether we are taxed or pay for it with hire premiums we all pay for it in the end. the public system is the best idea, it's easy to stand there and whine about paying for someone you don't know when you have a job (a job that pays well) and insurances. think about it the next time a patient leaves ama because he/she does not want a bill they can not pay; even better lay off's or better yet closing of a hospital

is it still considered discharge ama, when it's the hospital that's kicking the patient out, due to lack of health care insurance or sufficient resources? :thnkg:

have you said that discharge ama could be due to a hospital closing? discharge planners should place patients in similar facilities if that is indicated, and the hospital where they are, is closing? or if the hospital laid off staff and hasn't anyone to care for them?........

Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb

Would you support a public health care option?