Handling chauvinistic male charge nurse

[pedicurn]

I work with a recently promoted male charge nurse who I would best describe as a clever 'men lead, women follow' type.

He is a second career type with a professional background ....smart and accomplished in areas outside of nursing.... but with only a couple of years of nursing experience.

He was acceptable as a junior staff nurse but loathsome to several of us who picked up upon his poor attitude. Leaving his messy bedspaces for his female coworkers to tidy was standard behaviour. Am quite upset this guy was promoted over-and-above several more experienced others with the same smarts and degree

This guy irritates me . Constant need to 'lead' me despite me having so much more experience and the same BScNursing degree....even as a staff nurse.

He has really stepped over the line a couple of times eg 'look at me when I am talking to you' .... LOL

However he usually knows how to stay within boundaries but at the same time be subtle with his expression of his perceived importance. He alters his body language to do this eg makes sure he is standing up and I'm sitting when he is telling me something.

Or he uses a slightly dismissive tone when I voice my opinion. Or he walks away immediately after saying his piece thus cutting out participation from anyone else.

He is subtle .... but he's clever with it.

He is an evangelical type and I suspect his beliefs are responsible for his offensive 'men lead and women follow' attitude.

But of course he knows he needs to keep religion out of the workplace. Because the moment he brings religion in, we will nail him.

I need to have several effective retorts up my sleeve that allow me to both maintain my self-respect and stay out of my managers office.

Any ideas ??

[leslie :-D]

your freakin' thread title is "chauvinist male charge nurse". you are far too concerned about the fact that he's a male.

would it have made a difference, if the title was, "chauvinist charge nurse"?

once you realized op ws referring to it as he, you would have still (likely) accused her of sexism.

and no, it's not old-fashioned to call his behavior assertive. grab a dictionary. if a woman exhibited the same behavior, i'd call her assertive as well. the word "assertive" is not gender-specific.

then you are the exception.

in most cases, when a woman is assertive, she is called a "b*tch".

thems are the facts.

leslie

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

Where are people getting the impression that she has a bias against male nurses? Why is "chauvinistic" always in quotation marks?

There ARE chauvinistic men out there. Unless you're a woman who's been on the other end of their behavior, you probably don't understand. Just because he didn't stand in the middle of the hospital pounding his chest and demanding a beer and a sandwich doesn't mean he respects women. You can be a total jerk and be subtle about it.

She didn't even say he was a bad charge nurse either! Just that other equally (or more) qualified people were passed up for the same job. I can see how that would be upsetting to have someone's condescending attitude reinforced in that way. Seriously, I don't think it would be a problem for her if a male nurse who didn't treat her poorly got that job because this is mainly about the way she's being treated- no need for the "but what about the men?" privilege-denying straw man argument.

Agree

There would be no issue if a suitably qualified male nurse got the job ( ie had similar requirements for the job as the female charge nurses)

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

Where are people getting the impression that she has a bias against male nurses? Why is "chauvinistic" always in quotation marks?

There ARE chauvinistic men out there. Unless you're a woman who's been on the other end of their behavior, you probably don't understand. Just because he didn't stand in the middle of the hospital pounding his chest and demanding a beer and a sandwich doesn't mean he respects women. You can be a total jerk and be subtle about it.

She didn't even say he was a bad charge nurse either! Just that other equally (or more) qualified people were passed up for the same job. I can see how that would be upsetting to have someone's condescending attitude reinforced in that way. Seriously, I don't think it would be a problem for her if a male nurse who didn't treat her poorly got that job because this is mainly about the way she's being treated- no need for the "but what about the men?" privilege-denying straw man argument.

Did you even read my post??? Sorry, kidding and just taking a page from the OP's book there.

I put it in quotes because I am quoting the thread title. Of course there are men out there who hold the attitude that they are better than women. Of course men do get picked over women in some cases for promotion. The reason that I am locking in on the man-bashing is that there is nothing in the OP's original statement that shows that this person is chauvinist. Plenty of women exhibit the same behavior in supervisory and management roles.

Re-reading the OP's original post, everything that's described is typical of those with type A personalities. Aggressive and assertive. And those people tend to end up in supervisory roles. I just don't see this as a man vs. woman issue. If the OP had observed him treating women in this way, but treating men with a more respectful, humble attitude, then I would see this as a gender issue.

Seriously, I don't think it would be a problem for her if a male nurse who didn't treat her poorly got that job because this is mainly about the way she's being treated- no need for the "but what about the men?" privilege-denying straw man argument.

I'm criticized for making this into a gender issue when it was already made a gender issue by the OP. Fabulous.

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

You are minimising my concerns. It's a gender issue .... hope that's not the reason you are minimising ?

Wow. I'm minimizing your concerns because it's a gender issue. This is turning into a vicious cycle here.

I brought up an example of a hiring decision which I believe gender played a role. That is an illegal practice. Though obviously can be difficult to prove.

Hope you really don't think this kind of stuff is 'ignorance' ???

I don't believe that this is a gender issue. The behavior that you've described doesn't seem sexist. Annoying, yes. Sexist, no. Does he treat the male nurses on the unit better than the females? If so, then I'd say you have a gender issue.

His behaviour is subtle ... and there.

Sometimes not so subtle eg Leaving his mess for others to clean up ... pretty much like telling us to go make him a sandwich isn't it?

And no he is a charge nurse (one of seven) ...we already have a manager

Again, we're arguing about semantics in the use of the word "manager". It really doesn't matter in the scope of my original statement.

As for leaving his mess for others to clean up -- is he only doing this to the female nurses? Does he make sure that everything is tidied up for any of the male nurses coming behind him? This is maybe more of an issue of being sloppy than being sexist. In either case, why don't you start documenting it and bringing it up to your manager, since he isn't in management?

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

So does someone who is precepting a new employee. Doesn't make them a manager.

Again, it really doesn't matter either way in the scope of my original statement. We're expanding on something that has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the discussion.

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

Did you even read my post??? Sorry, kidding and just taking a page from the OP's book there.

I put it in quotes because I am quoting the thread title. Of course there are men out there who hold the attitude that they are better than women. Of course men do get picked over women in some cases for promotion. The reason that I am locking in on the man-bashing is that there is nothing in the OP's original statement that shows that this person is chauvinist. Plenty of women exhibit the same behavior in supervisory and management roles.

Re-reading the OP's original post, everything that's described is typical of those with type A personalities. Aggressive and assertive. And those people tend to end up in supervisory roles. I just don't see this as a man vs. woman issue. If the OP had observed him treating women in this way, but treating men with a more respectful, humble attitude, then I would see this as a gender issue.

I'm criticized for making this into a gender issue when it was already made a gender issue by the OP. Fabulous.

For the last time ....

Look at the facts.

Way less experience ( 2 yrs is a baby in my specialty), no graduate education and poor leadership skills.

Contrast his attributes to those of the several female charge nurses.

There may very well be a case for discrimination here.

I think you are the one with gender issues.

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

would it have made a difference, if the title was, "chauvinist charge nurse"?

once you realized op ws referring to it as he, you would have still (likely) accused her of sexism.

It's not an accusation of sexism. It's an accusation of not seeing the big picture and keying in on the fact that the charge nurse in question is a male. If the OP had not keyed in on this, the thread title would not be what it is. I'm not going to sit here and defend myself for calling a spade a spade. This may be taking it down a slippery slope, but what if the title had been "Handling annoying Caucasian charge nurse" or "Handling aggravating Buddhist charge nurse"? The thread title, being a brief descriptor of the issue at hand, clues you in to what's really on the OP's mind.

And no, it's not old-fashioned to call his behavior assertive. Grab a dictionary. If a woman exhibited the same behavior, I'd call her assertive as well. The word "assertive" is not gender-specific.

then you are the exception.

in most cases, when a woman is assertive, she is called a "b*tch".

thems are the facts.

In my mind, assertiveness is a positive trait (although not all of what OP described was positive). For the male version, I'd call him an a*hole, not assertive.

[fuzzywuzzy, CNA]

Donald, you are the one who is wrapped up in the gender issue. You have totally dismissed his sexist behavior, and *that* is the real issue here. So yes, it's about gender, but not in the way you're insisting that it is. And then you turn it around and call it "man-bashing?" No, no, no.

And for the record, "assertive" qualities are valued in management, yes. Now which gender is socialized from a young age to be assertive, and which gender is socialized to be "nice?" It IS gender specific to a certain degree.

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

For the last time ....

This sounds like the prelude to a threat

Look at the facts.

Way less experience ( 2 yrs is a baby in my specialty), no graduate education and poor leadership skills.

Contrast his attributes to those of the several female charge nurses.

There may very well be a case for discrimination here.

I think you are the one with gender issues.

Nope, no gender issues here. Sorry to disappoint, but I could care less what gender anyone is. I probably would have entitled this thread "Handling annoying, overbearing charge nurse", regardless of the person's gender. As I said in my last post, the thread title really keys people in on what is on the OP's mind. You're not going to turn this around and make me look like the one with the gender problems, when you're the one that put so much emphasis on the charge nurse's gender. Not gonna happen.

You still haven't answered my question as to whether or not his experience and education meets the minimum requirements for his position. If they don't, then bring it up to management. If they do, suck it up. He obviously has some traits and qualities that you are blind to. He didn't put himself in that position, did he?

Without more concrete evidence, there is no case for discrimination here. You're living a pipe dream.

[fuzzywuzzy, CNA]

It's not an accusation of sexism. It's an accusation of not seeing the big picture and keying in on the fact that the charge nurse in question is a male. If the OP had not keyed in on this, the thread title would not be what it is. I'm not going to sit here and defend myself for calling a spade a spade. This may be taking it down a slippery slope, but what if the title had been "Handling annoying Caucasian charge nurse" or "Handling aggravating Buddhist charge nurse"? The thread title, being a brief descriptor of the issue at hand, clues you in to what's really on the OP's mind.

If the charge nurse in question were not male, then he would not be treating the OP like a *male chauvinist* and we wouldn't have a thread. It's already been pointed out this if the guy wasn't such a sexist douche, she wouldn't have these issues. It's not about him being male. It's about his behavior AS a male. Which is why "annoying and overbearing" as you suggested for the thread title just wouldn't cut it.

And seriously? "annoying caucasian charge nurse?" That doesn't compare, unless the OP is a person of color or in a member of a historically subordinated group in some other capacity.

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

Donald, you are the one who is wrapped up in the gender issue. You have totally dismissed his sexist behavior, and *that* is the real issue here. So yes, it's about gender, but not in the way you're insisting that it is. And then you turn it around and call it "man-bashing?" No, no, no.

And for the record, "assertive" qualities are valued in management, yes. Now which gender is socialized from a young age to be assertive, and which gender is socialized to be "nice?" It IS gender specific to a certain degree.

First of all, I didn't call it man-bashing. That was a quote from another poster. I'm sorry if you misread it.

Second, I am not the one wrapped up in the gender issue. This was a key topic in the OP's post, and I am addressing it.

Without evidence that the charge nurse is treating female nurses in a way different than the way he treats male nurses, this is not a gender issue. It's just an issue of him being overbearing and at worst, a poor diplomat. While I do agree that those traits in and of themselves do not make a great charge nurse, this is all subjective from the OP's point of view.

And for the record, "assertive" qualities are valued in management, yes. Now which gender is socialized from a young age to be assertive, and which gender is socialized to be "nice?" It IS gender specific to a certain degree.

Just because males are typically geared toward being assertive does not mean that females are not. I fail to see what your point has to do with context of this discussion.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Wow. Lots of fire-y responses to this one! OP, I get where you are coming from. I have had to deal with this before, and the behavior that you are seeing from this charge nurse is a direct result of insecurity. He KNOWS that there are other nurses that are more experienced that he. Someone who is secure with their abilities as a manager does not behave the way this jackwagon does. Granted, he is learning, and his behaviors may change. Sometimes when an inexperienced person is placed into a position of authority, they tend to go overboard with it until they understand their role and can integrate their style into a more acceptable way with staff. It is still annoying as heck to deal with in the interim, though.

So when he stands over you, just stand up too. When he tries to "teach" you something that you already know, grit your teeth and say, "Thanks, I understand how to do this." and then change the subject. If he is directing you to do something and then turns to walk away, say, "Um, can you hang on a minute so we can discuss this?" If he is unwilling at that point to stop and hear you out regarding a decision that he made unilaterally, WRITE AN INCIDENT REPORT. Stick to the facts.