Doc beings medical student without permission

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I have to ask you guys a question. Maybe this is more appropriate for another forum and if so, please point me in the correct direction.

We have a fairly new male OB who has been in academia for years at another facility; therefor he is very used to teaching. His teaching is not the problem.

Recently, he has been bringing medical students (male and female) around on the unit when he is visiting his patients (who may be in labor). What is bothering me is that he will walk right in to the laboring woman's room with his student in tow and even examine a patient (lady partslly) WITHOUT asking her permission in advance. This is really beginning to bother me.

I know that he also does this in his on-site office because I have had this same discussion with one of his office staff.

I feel that his patient's rights are being violated when he does this. He has no business bringing anyone in with him, unless he asks their permission beforehand.

I intend to speak with him about this because as a patient advocate, I firmly believe that he is violating patient confidentiality, not to mention their right to privacy. But before I do this, I want to have my ducks in a row, so to speak so that I go up the chain of command properly.

Can anyone give me any citations or anything I can use as ammunition if I need it? I can go to our risk manager as well. I jsut want to do this right. I do not want to be confrontational but I want to protect his patients.

Thanks, in advance.

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Have you ever wondered how they get all that footage for such series as "Trauma: Life in the ER"? Talk about privacy issues!!!

I'm not sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that somewhere in the paperwork the patient signs to become this doctor's patient is something the pt signs which gives up certain rights.

It's kind of along the idea of how, in order to get group insurance, you sign a statement giving the insurance company the right to all of your medical records, and the people who can get your medical records from the insurance company is also vaguely written. (If you want more info on this, check out the site http://www.privacyrights.org ).

I have to ask you guys a question. Maybe this is more appropriate for another forum and if so, please point me in the correct direction.

We have a fairly new male OB who has been in academia for years at another facility; therefor he is very used to teaching. His teaching is not the problem.

Recently, he has been bringing medical students (male and female) around on the unit when he is visiting his patients (who may be in labor). What is bothering me is that he will walk right in to the laboring woman's room with his student in tow and even examine a patient (lady partslly) WITHOUT asking her permission in advance. This is really beginning to bother me.

I know that he also does this in his on-site office because I have had this same discussion with one of his office staff.

I feel that his patient's rights are being violated when he does this. He has no business bringing anyone in with him, unless he asks their permission beforehand.

I intend to speak with him about this because as a patient advocate, I firmly believe that he is violating patient confidentiality, not to mention their right to privacy. But before I do this, I want to have my ducks in a row, so to speak so that I go up the chain of command properly.

Can anyone give me any citations or anything I can use as ammunition if I need it? I can go to our risk manager as well. I jsut want to do this right. I do not want to be confrontational but I want to protect his patients.

Thanks, in advance.

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I know why he does it....given the chance the female in labor will say no 95 percent of the time... I'm glad when i had my OB rotation (as a guy) I was smart enought not to ask any questions like "do you mind if i'm here" or especially telling them I'm a student nurse... since If they said no..I wasnt going to learn anything... I've helped 2 women deliver, something as small as holding up their legs or holding their hand... I dont think they ever regretted me being there (even though I never asked) and even thanked me hugged me after my 2nd day with them in post partum. From my expereince (and it's very small because I'm only a 2nd year student) "most" women in L&D are in so much pain...they dont care if there is a clown dancing in the room...as long as they feel good about themselved and whats going on :clown:

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
I know why he does it....given the chance the female in labor will say no 95 percent of the time... I'm glad when i had my OB rotation (as a guy) I was smart enought not to ask any questions like "do you mind if i'm here" or especially telling them I'm a student nurse... since If they said no..I wasnt going to learn anything... I've helped 2 women deliver, something as small as holding up their legs or holding their hand... I dont think they ever regretted me being there (even though I never asked) and even thanked me hugged me after my 2nd day with them in post partum. From my expereince (and it's very small because I'm only a 2nd year student) "most" women in L&D are in so much pain...they dont care if there is a clown dancing in the room...as long as they feel good about themselved and whats going on :clown:

Has it occured to you that every patient has the right to say "No" 100% of the time? Your desire for education and training does not obligate ANY patient to tolerate your presence, especially without his/her express consent.

As a woman who has delivered 2 babies, I personally didn't care who was present, as long as I was asked first. Had someone appeared without explanation or permission, my hubby would have tossed his/her sorry butt out the door on my behalf.

Childbirth is an intensely private and intimate experience. You clearly lack that insight, as evidenced by your statement that, "...they dont care if there is a clown dancing in the room...as long as they feel good about themselved and whats going on:" That has to be the most insensitive and and profoundly stupid remark I have read in a long time!

I highly suggest that you examine your attitudes towards patient privacy, respect, and review material on medical ethics before continuing your nursing education. Perhaps this field is not appropriate for you.

I imagine that your attitudes toward patient privacy may change if you ever require care for a sensitive health issue, such as a urinary catheterization or prostate exam.

1 Votes
Specializes in Trauma, Teaching.

Does your hospital have a protocol for med students? Mine is not officially a teaching hospital per se, but we do have med students rotate through with the private practice docs. Their names are posted in the communication book, pictures posted, and given a temporary ID. If not, he has no business bringing someone in without introducing them. If he's been in academia for years, he may not even be thinking about it, because having med students follow him is just routine.

I'd talk to your manager first, to see what the hospital's position is, and if there isn't one, I'd bring up HIPPA big time.

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One OB I visited when pregnant with my daughter told me in the first appointment she trains med students and they would be present at exams and possibly delivery. I can request they not be present. She would ask if they could also examine me. I chose another OB because she did NOT train med students. My guess is his patients already know about this. Ask the doctor. Have any of the patients complained?

I have to ask you guys a question. Maybe this is more appropriate for another forum and if so, please point me in the correct direction.

We have a fairly new male OB who has been in academia for years at another facility; therefor he is very used to teaching. His teaching is not the problem.

Recently, he has been bringing medical students (male and female) around on the unit when he is visiting his patients (who may be in labor). What is bothering me is that he will walk right in to the laboring woman's room with his student in tow and even examine a patient (lady partslly) WITHOUT asking her permission in advance. This is really beginning to bother me.

I know that he also does this in his on-site office because I have had this same discussion with one of his office staff.

I feel that his patient's rights are being violated when he does this. He has no business bringing anyone in with him, unless he asks their permission beforehand.

I intend to speak with him about this because as a patient advocate, I firmly believe that he is violating patient confidentiality, not to mention their right to privacy. But before I do this, I want to have my ducks in a row, so to speak so that I go up the chain of command properly.

Can anyone give me any citations or anything I can use as ammunition if I need it? I can go to our risk manager as well. I jsut want to do this right. I do not want to be confrontational but I want to protect his patients.

Thanks, in advance.

0 Votes

The person who posted about the paperwork was probably right...when I went in for a minor procedure I noticed that part of the consent said something like, "and I give consent for Mercy Hospital physicians and their residents and students to assume care for me under the supervision of the attending..." As a student, I had never really read one before so I happened to notice that. HOWEVER, anyone and everyone can revoke their consent at ANY time (unless psych. hold), so these OB pts have every right to kick whomever out!

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I know why he does it....given the chance the female in labor will say no 95 percent of the time... I'm glad when i had my OB rotation (as a guy) I was smart enought not to ask any questions like "do you mind if i'm here" or especially telling them I'm a student nurse... since If they said no..I wasnt going to learn anything... I've helped 2 women deliver, something as small as holding up their legs or holding their hand... I dont think they ever regretted me being there (even though I never asked) and even thanked me hugged me after my 2nd day with them in post partum. From my expereince (and it's very small because I'm only a 2nd year student) "most" women in L&D are in so much pain...they dont care if there is a clown dancing in the room...as long as they feel good about themselved and whats going on :clown:

If you never asked, then you were way out of line: EXTREMELY UNPROFESSIONAL!!

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I highly suggest that you examine your attitudes towards patient privacy, respect, and review material on medical ethics before continuing your nursing education. Perhaps this field is not appropriate for you.

I imagine that your attitudes toward patient privacy may change if you ever require care for a sensitive health issue, such as a urinary catheterization or prostate exam.>>

You go, girl! I don't know who this guy is but he needs a wake up call and an attitude adjustment!

Regarding my original question about our OB who brings a student......I plan to go to our hospital risk manager and ask her. I find this practice to be totally innapropriate.

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Specializes in Geriatric/LTC, Rehab, Home Hhealth.

After the birth of my third child a nursing instructor came into my room and asked if she could bring some nursing students in during my 1 day postpartum exam....I said sure. Next thing I know, my legs are in stirrups and I have a dozen or so students crowded around with varying looks of horror on their faces. :eek: .This was years before I became a nurse and I have always appreciated what its like to be on the other side of things.

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Always ask..geez..I can remember being 'in the stirrups' and my doc walks in with a med student..I live in a small town..the student was a guy I was in high school with...I was like ummmmm I DON'T THINK SO!!! could just see myself in a social setting with this student...ummm NO....lmao;)

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Always ask..geez..I can remember being 'in the stirrups' and my doc walks in with a med student..I live in a small town..the student was a guy I was in high school with...I was like ummmmm I DON'T THINK SO!!! could just see myself in a social setting with this student...ummm NO....lmao;)

Eeewwww! How awful! Were you covered up when the student walked in, or was it already too late when you realized you knew him?

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