Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's

Nurses General Nursing

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I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings, or by experience.

I think that just as there is a difference in the tasks an RN and LPN can preform, there should also be a difference in what a two year RN can do, in comparison to a RN with a BSN. The 2 year RN should not be in leadeership or management positions since they have not been trained in accredeited colleges for this skill. The BSN has. I'm sure the 2 yers RN's will disagree with me, and 2 years ago I would have disagreed also. However, after being able to compare the two from personal experience, I feel the BSN is more educated for leadership and management. The BSN nurse should be paid more, and should be the starting educational level for these positions.

Most professions have at least a 4 year degree. Nurses need to improve their educational standing to be equal with other professional fields.

This is a sensitive issue with me and perhaps I am being too sensitive, but I really hate it when people refer to my educational acheivements as "letters behind my name" or "alphabet soup."

Susy K--I apologize, I never intended to belittle your (or anyone's) accomplishments. As a BSN graduate with 17 years experience, I admire anyone who goes back to school, obtains an advance degree, specialty certification, or in any way furthers their education.

The only thing I wanted to say --is that very few patient's #1--know their nurses degree, or #2 care about their nurses' degree--they only care that they are CARED for.

To generalize and say that any one nurse is better OR worse than another nurse-- based purely on educational background is both arrogant and clearly over-simpliflied--and not at all what I wanted (or thought) I was saying.

Specializes in Med-surg; OB/Well baby; pulmonology; RTS.

I normally do not get involved in these discussions, but I have had it.....:chair: :mad:

To those of you that have your BSN, MSN, etc., you have my congratulations and up-most respect for all of your hard work:)

I am speaking for myself here: at the time I went to nursing school, I could not afford to go and get my BSN-I tried for scholarships and grants, but it would not have been enough and my mother did not want me to work while I was in school-she felt I should concentrate on my EDUCATION. I do plan to go back and get my BSN sometime, because I want to specialize......

Where I work, this conversation never comes up....we do not have time to have this debate. The times I have been a patient myself, I could have cared less if the RN taking care of me had an ADN, BSN, or MSN, just as long as he/she could do their job correctly and safely....

We are in a nursing shortage....we should not be arguing this debate for what seems the hundreth time now...WE ARE ALL NURSES!

Also, in my opinion, if the standards to sit for NCLEX is raised for all nurses to have a BSN, what about those, like me (or their families)who can not afford to go to a 4 year college, despite all the grant or scholarship money in the world, what about their hopes and dreams being demolished?! To me this situation could cause us to miss out on some great minds in our nursing field....make sense?

.....yes, maybe I am being sensitive too, but what worries me is any FUTURE nurses seeing this argument are going to think that they are not good enough because they do not have a BSN.

Stepping off of my soapbox now :imbar

Originally posted by Susy K

Hey Fab, you're catching me in a conversational mood! ;)

I'm not sure how to phrase this, but by someone stating that having a BSN will increase professionalism in nursing, does that necessarily mean that ADNs/diploma diminish it? I guess, is there always an implied negative? Cause I know I sure don't mean it that way, and I'm pretty confident others don't.

Do you get what I'm asking?

Not you, Susy...that was a somewhat oblique reference to someone else; but I've made a promise to behave myself so I will go no further.;)

As for the person who asked if anyone had tried getting their BSN.

I went for 2 semesters of my BSN. Didn't like the school. And do not care for internet classes which do not suit my learning style best. Unfortuanately the entire university system uses the internet to help obtain your BSN while charging you master's level credits. I didn't feel that the university was doing much for me and nor will having my four year degree defer me from any job that I care for.

So instead, I certified. I got my CCRN and am now working on my cardiac/vascular certification.

Let me tell you that I get a lot more respect for passing my CCRN than I ever will for having my 4 year degree.

Like I said before, until the 2 year colleges and the 4 year colleges get their act together on cirriculum and make the transition easier, then I personnally see no point

I agree that a BSN should eventually be the minimum educational requirement for an RN. And I think that, ideally, this route would offer both the purported superiority of hands-on experience that a current associate's degree offers, and the extra theory and leadership classes offered by BSN programs.

As nurses we have people's lives in our hands. The responsibility is by no means small. And while I agree that experience is the best teacher there is, and patients may not care how many degrees their nurse has, the fact is that nursing has traditionally been a woman's job, and people therefore think that 'anyone can do it', or 'it doesn't take much to become a nurse'. ALL of us here know this, whether we're LPNs, RNs, BSN, whatever. Our education should reflect the amount of responsibility we bear. And I also agree with another poster (sorry, can't remember who) that said raising the bar may attract more men to the field.

Yes, I am a student, not a nurse yet, so of course I don't know nearly as much as you all that are already practicing. My intent is to start a BSN program this year, and I may eventually go on to become an NP for acute care. --NOT management. Many people going for their BSNs and beyond still want to work at the bedside, believe me.

I'd like to add--we all seem to want to have more respect from patients, doctors, administrators, the media, etc. I'm sorry to say that hearing that you can become a nurse by completing a diploma program at a hospital does not sound like much to an outsider. I'm not knocking on anyone who has taken this route. At the hospital where I volunteer there is a nurse there who went through a diploma program, and I highly respect her. However, this seems like a relatively 'easy' thing to do if you don't have a clue about nursing, like the media does, for example.

Of course we don't live in an ideal world, but I think we should put our personal self-rightous ideas about who's better prepared and who is worth more aside and agree that we need to work together to gain the respect of the world. I very strongly think that making a bachelor's degree the minimum would be a big step in the right direction, imo.

Excellent post, Mel.

Mel,

I agree with you entirely on both of your posts.

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Mel, great post!

(sorry, just had to stick my nose in!) ;)

Originally posted by Mel D

I agree that a BSN should eventually be the minimum educational requirement for an RN. And I think that, ideally, this route would offer both the purported superiority of hands-on experience that a current associate's degree offers, and the extra theory and leadership classes offered by BSN programs.

As nurses we have people's lives in our hands. The responsibility is by no means small. And while I agree that experience is the best teacher there is, and patients may not care how many degrees their nurse has, the fact is that nursing has traditionally been a woman's job, and people therefore think that 'anyone can do it', or 'it doesn't take much to become a nurse'. ALL of us here know this, whether we're LPNs, RNs, BSN, whatever. Our education should reflect the amount of responsibility we bear. And I also agree with another poster (sorry, can't remember who) that said raising the bar may attract more men to the field.

Yes, I am a student, not a nurse yet, so of course I don't know nearly as much as you all that are already practicing. My intent is to start a BSN program this year, and I may eventually go on to become an NP for acute care. --NOT management. Many people going for their BSNs and beyond still want to work at the bedside, believe me.

Mel, good thoughts.....however, why would one stay at the bedside with no further compensation, not just money, but we also work under many other adverse conditions that l do not believe will dissapear with further education.....and NP's are not bedside nurses even though they do practice clinically......but ADN's and BSN deliver the same bedside care.....l guess l am just feeling that nurses will be further taken advantage of by saying, now you have to have more education....work under the same conditions for the same pay...if l completed my BSN today, l would not get a raise tomorrow unless l LEAVE bedside nursing where there is the most critical shortage....l do think it is a good step toward improving the profession, but will have little effect without taking other major steps to improve the working conditions....and these conditions need to be improved prior to raising the bar...otherwise, more men and women are going to question....why get a BSN to be a nurse and work under deplorable conditions when l can get a BS in another field and make more money and better working conditions......there is a time to increase educational aspect of nursing, but without other improvements first...it will not work IMO..........LR

Originally posted by l.rae

Mel, good thoughts.....however, why would one stay at the bedside with no further compensation, not just money, LR

This is exactly why I made the comment that BSN nurses should get paid more. What is the incentive for a nurse to advance his or her education if they aren't going to be paid more for it? So no, I didn't say that to be arrogant or snide, but just because it makes sense.

And Mel, I think your post was excellent and you made some very good points. I'm looking forward to doing bedside nursing too, even though at some point I would like to obtain a master's degree.

SuzyK, the "arrogant" person fab4fan was referring to was me, because in my first post I said something along the lines of "BSN nurses should be paid more because they have more skills". Everyone subsequently jumped on me and proceed to personally attack me for saying that, even though I have tried to explain WHY I said that over and over (for example, I made a comment about how I had to take a foreign language-- I wasn't necessarily referring to technical aspects of bedside nursing skills). I NEVER said that I was better than anyone for having a BSN or that ADNs aren't good nurses.

Apparently I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on this subject because I'm still a student.

Originally posted by Mel D

I agree that a BSN should eventually be the minimum educational requirement for an RN. And I think that, ideally, this route would offer both the purported superiority of hands-on experience that a current associate's degree offers, and the extra theory and leadership classes offered by BSN programs.

Our education should reflect the amount of responsibility we bear. And I also agree with another poster (sorry, can't remember who) that said raising the bar may attract more men to the field.

OK, why? Seems like these are the comments that keep the ongoing fight ongoing. Raising the bar will attract more men???? PUHLEEZ!

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