Delegating to UAP. How do you feel about it?

  1. I am now learning about this. It scares the s*** out of me. :angryfire Why should I as an RN tell a UAP to do something that falls under my license?

    How do you deal with it. ISTM that we are putting our license on the line and take away time needed for the patients.


    Thanks!!

    ______________________________________

    In His Grace,

    Karen


    Failure is NOT an option!!
  2. Visit kwagner_51 profile page

    About kwagner_51

    Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 766; Likes: 53
    Home Health Nurse
    Specialty: Geriatrics, Pediatrics, Home Health

    23 Comments

  3. by   z's playa
    What's a UAP?
  4. by   LPN1974
    Quote from z's playa
    What's a UAP?

    Unlicensed Assistive Personnel
  5. by   z's playa
    Quote from LPN1974
    Unlicensed Assistive Personnel

    Thanks but what do they do? Why would a nurse delegate to them?
  6. by   LPN1974
    Quote from z's playa
    Thanks but what do they do? Why would a nurse delegate to them?

    Well, mostly what I know about is that in alot of states CNAs {Certified Nursing Assistants} are becoming med techs, meaning now they have taken a course sometimes just a couple of weeks long, in pharmacology, and can now pass meds.
    I think some hospitals and nursing homes, and assisted living facilities are using them, supposedly with certain restrictions, such as no injections, no insulin, no blood sugar checks, but if one reads on this board enough there have been plenty who have stated they've done it all.
    So this is one area where nurses {RNs and LPNs} are going to be asked to delegate and be responsible for UAPs to pass meds.
    I live in Arkansas, and a bill was recently introduced to have CMAs {Certified Medication Aides} here.
    I haven't been able to find out if it passed or not.
    One of our distinguished Registered Nurses on the Arkansas State Board of Nursing was in SUPPORT of this bill, and made the statement "It does not take a rocket scientist to put pills in a cup and watch a patient take them".
    This is rather a long explanation, of which some of this I will probably get flamed for.
    There are numerous threads on this board about this particular subject, but you asked a question and I just tried to answer it.
  7. by   z's playa
    Quote from LPN1974
    Well, mostly what I know about is that in alot of states CNAs {Certified Nursing Assistants} are becoming med techs, meaning now they have taken a course sometimes just a couple of weeks long, in pharmacology, and can now pass meds.
    I think some hospitals and nursing homes, and assisted living facilities are using them, supposedly with certain restrictions, such as no injections, no insulin, no blood sugar checks, but if one reads on this board enough there have been plenty who have stated they've done it all.
    So this is one area where nurses {RNs and LPNs} are going to be asked to delegate and be responsible for UAPs to pass meds.
    I live in Arkansas, and a bill was recently introduced to have CMAs {Certified Medication Aides} here.
    I haven't been able to find out if it passed or not.
    One of our distinguished Registered Nurses on the Arkansas State Board of Nursing was in SUPPORT of this bill, and made the statement "It does not take a rocket scientist to put pills in a cup and watch a patient take them".
    This is rather a long explanation, of which some of this I will probably get flamed for.
    There are numerous threads on this board about this particular subject, but you asked a question and I just tried to answer it.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I find it hard to keep up with all the different titles that mean the same thing all over the world here! I may have run across it but I didn't realize it. Thanks again. I can't see why anyone would flame you though.

    Thanks again

    Z
  8. by   LPN1974
    Quote from z's playa
    Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I find it hard to keep up with all the different titles that mean the same thing all over the world here! I may have run across it but I didn't realize it. Thanks again. I can't see why anyone would flame you though.

    Thanks again

    Z
    No problem and you're welcome.
  9. by   LPN1974
    Quote from kwagner_51
    I am now learning about this. It scares the s*** out of me. :angryfire Why should I as an RN tell a UAP to do something that falls under my license?

    How do you deal with it. ISTM that we are putting our license on the line and take away time needed for the patients.


    Thanks!!

    ______________________________________

    In His Grace,

    Karen


    Failure is NOT an option!!



    Well, I haven't actually been put into the situation yet, and hopefully I won't be, but I don't like it.
    I think the whole thing stinks of beauracratic legislative major messups myself.
    I work in MR/DDS and pass meds to about 60-65 people if we have 2 nurses, and about 40 if we have 3 nurses, the 60 figure is too much, but I can't see delegating that out to UAPs. I'd rather give it myself as to delegate it out.
    The aides, where I work, can do topical treatments if it is OTC ointments and creams. They also give Lactaid and Beano to some of our residents, but those are over the counter, and must be administered with meals, and the nurse cannot always arrive at the required times to administer those type meds, so they are allowed to do that much. But that's it. They don't give tylenol, benadryl, or anything else.
  10. by   kwagner_51
    I think the whole thing stinks of beauracratic legislative major messups myself.
    Take a look at this website. It's enough to make my toes curl.


    http://www.revolutionmag.com/newrev2/engineering.html

    The healthcare INDUSTRY is trying to "deskill" nurses and has done a d***** good job of it too.


    ____________________________________

    In His Grace,

    Karen


    Failure is NOT an option!!
  11. by   LPN1974
    Yes, that is very interesting.
    This is a year 2000 report...can we assume that this is still going on?
    I thought that they were going to try to do something about the nursing shortage, but I guess what MY state has done is try to pass that bill to allow UAPs to become med techs to pass medications.
    I guess that is Arkansas' solution, which is not a GOOD solution in my book.
    Why can't they put that money and training going into one person towards helping that person go to LPN or RN school?
    Looks like money would be better spent towards a nursing degree or raising salaries for nursing school instructors for better retention there.
    Oh, don't get me started.
    This CMA med tech thing is a thorn in my side.
    VENT OVER.
  12. by   stidget99
    IMO.......the delivery of health care has slowly but surely undergone changes over the last 50 yrs and will continue. Tasks that were generally only done by MDs are now being done by RNs (i.e. d/c of central lines). Tasks that were generally only done by RNs are now being done by LPNs (i.e. passing of meds). And tasks that were generally only done by LPNs are now being done by CNAs. I think that this "downward" shift of responsibilities is taking place because pts are sicker than they were say 50 yrs ago. Each profession w/in the health care system is slowly but surely being required to get more education to accomodate these shifts. My guess is that eventually, CNA staff will being doing tasks that have historically been deemed as only RN and LPN duties including the med pass. This will happen, IMO, to allow nurses to perform those duties in their "expanded" practice (i.e. "simple surgical procedures"). I am just wondering, if nurses are taking over the MDs tasks (i.e. nurse practitioner), what will the MDs be doing?

    (Does this all makes sense??? LOL I just woke up and my brain is still somewhat cob-webby. )
  13. by   LPN1974
    Yeah, just what ARE the MDs doing?
    Laying on a beach somewhere?
    At my job, we have 2 G-tube feeders and one person had pulled his out so many times, we had to send him to the ER to get it replaced, that the ER said they wouldn't be doing those anymore.
    Hence, the RNs, on my job, now have to put them in.
    Wonder how long THAT will last?
    Seems like it's kinda like "passing the buck" or like the tale that my co-worker likes to tell.

    There was this man on the job that was saying that he seemed to be getting alot of extra work. All the extra jobs were being passed on to him.
    The man he was talking to says, "Well, there's always a Mr. Smith that can take on those jobs."
    The first man WAS the Mr. Smith...............
    The second man was the one passing all the jobs to Mr. Smith.

    So I guess from the RNs on down, we all become Mr. Smiths. lol
  14. by   kwagner_51
    Yeah, just what ARE the MDs doing?
    Believe it or not, MD's are joining unions to stop this crap.

    Read this:

    http://www.academy.umd.edu/AboutUs/n...es/9-30-00.htm

    and this:

    http://www.progressive.org/mpflor699.htm

    I find it interesting that doctors are joining unions for the same reasons nurses are: To protect the patient!!

    Let me know what you think of these sites!!

    __________________________________________

    In His Grace,

    Karen

    Failure is NOT an option!!

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