Crossing the Line? - page 4
My first post on this board, and I have a feeling it is sure to attract some heated debate. Here goes... I've been a nurse for almost 8 yrs and was working most recently at a Level I trauma... Read More
Apr 21, '03It's always easy for others to have 20/20 hindsight in these situations or alternative solutions, but I imagine you were facing very difficult challenges at the time you had to make your decisions. One word of caution for others that may be involved in patient situations; The hospital could file a complaint with the SBON for "boundary violations" if the SBON has a regulation that addresses it and nurses have been brought before the board. Some states such as Minnesota do address it and are specific (they address psychiatric patients, etc.) Some states do not recognize the fact that the therapeutic nurse-patient relationship has terminated and engaging in personal contact, (albeit consensual) may still be considered a violation. This is just something to consider. Perhaps another means to advocate for a patient in the acute care setting is to call for an ethics consult. There are no easy answers to situations such as this
Apr 21, '03Originally posted by mmb-rnjd
One word of caution for others that may be involved in patient situations; The hospital could file a complaint with the SBON for "boundary violations" if the SBON has a regulation that addresses it and nurses have been brought before the board. Some states such as Minnesota do address it and are specific (they address psychiatric patients, etc.) Some states do not recognize the fact that the therapeutic nurse-patient relationship has terminated and engaging in personal contact, (albeit consensual) may still be considered a violation. This is just something to consider. Perhaps another means to advocate for a patient in the acute care setting is to call for an ethics consult. There are no easy answers to situations such as this
Please do talk with an attorney who is experienced in cases like this. Here in Mn. a person can speak with a lawyer for an hour without charge to see if they have a case; and you may need a lawyer to represent you in front of the BON plus you may also be entitled to back pay for being fired.
I commend you for your advocating for your patient. I am also very concerned about where this will eventually lead to in the end.
Apr 22, '03Did you cross the line?......yes probably
Can you live with your decision?.......appears so
Would you do it again?.......I hope so
I do believe you did the right thing. I feel that governing bodies have been working so hard at improving the "PROFESSIONAL" image of our career that they have lost site of the caring aspect a little.
Somewhere along the line they need to find a balance so we have care in a professional manner and not just another professional carrer.
May 2, '03Jaded...if you were a good nurse and have worked with spinal cord & head injuries...you did what you had to do...you expected somebody to listen to you?
Yes, you were a SICU nurse.....try being on that Step down unit and having a patient that you know shouldn't be there. We also have the problem with battling the "powers" to try to get the patient back. We don't have the patient staff-ratio to take care of even the type of patient we are supposed to do.
Sorry for what you had to indure....Glad you put this on this site...never responded to anyone before...but your story got to me.
My husband also read it and encouraged me to reply...he read your story and seeing it from another nurse...think he has got it!
Face it (if we really ever can) You only get recognition if you punch in on time...don't work extra hours unless they try to kill you with Guilt about taking them) You may get a piece of candy or something if some little old lady writes something nice on their evaluation of the Hospital's Services...but try and prevent a Law Suit or "Death" before it happens ....and you will find yourself out of the door of the Hospital.
Hey...you don't have to be a patient's family to become an advocate for him........you did right!
There has never been a shortage of Nurses...just when things get bad out there...nurses go into hiding.
I've gotten in more trouble for trying to do the right thing than in doing some paperwork. Hospitals should realize that ..yes we work for them...yes we work for the patient....but why don't they understand if they would listen that we could prevent harm to the patient before it happens and a lawsuit before it happens!
Good for you Nurse...!!
Forget the lawyer...fighting your way back into a hospital...they never forget and you would be monitored (they would admit to it as it is illegal) but it would have only a matter of time before they made you so stressed that you would quit...or they would find some reason to make you.
We all hope that somewhere out in Nursing is a place that we can Nurse and have back-up of Management...think there qualifications are to know it is easier to fire one Nurse than admit that everything isn't just "Peachey" with their Nursing Staff.
Have you noticed how some of the Nurses who don't do a good job...seem to major in "Brown Nose 101" with the Management...they don't take as good of care as you did...but they get the credit. Myself...would rather you take care of me or my family....than a nurse who just wants her job and closes her eyes to what is in front of her.
Thank You Jaded!!!! Can match your stories...but this story is about you....and you will survive...you have...wish I could work with a bunch of nurses like you.
May 3, '03Wow, what a wonderful story. You are truly a great, wonderful nurse. I hope all is well for you right now.
May 3, '03Jadednurse, I want to commend you on your spunk and caring. This just goes to show you that a hospital will only back you when you show your caring side if it is what they want you to do. It is very important to make sure that we advocate for patient rights. Not everyone has a family member that can be there all of the time or at all. I think what you did was brave to say the least and I am proud that you are able to call yourself a nurse.
May 4, '03I think what you did was WONDERFUL, I am sure, you don't need to be related to be an advocate.
May 4, '03Quote
"They know they are letting people down every day, and here's a news flash for you- they don't care. That's why caring devoted nurses like yourself are so precious,and so important to keep in the profession. Otherwise the patient becomes a "market share" and the nurse is no different from a piece of equipment."
I go with Canoehead and as long as they don't care people like you will always be needed.
May 4, '03I admire your bravery,surely this person is special that his unfortunate circumstance have drawn you to him,I`ve heard stories couples breaking up because of one`s illness but you as a patient advocate stand up for him to the point of loosing your job.I just hope that everything is going fine now.Goodluck on your battle.
May 5, '03WOW, you guys are all so incredible. Thank you so much for all your kind words and support. After stumbling onto this website and posting this story here, I only wish I had known about it back when this was all happening...I really could have used the support, advice and encouragement back then. It has helped me more than you guys could ever know...THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Even with all the frustration and anger I experienced through all this, and especially after reading all of your thoughts and comments, I can honestly say that I don't regret what I did. A job is a job, there are plenty more. And what I gained from this experience is more valuable than any job I've had so far...
I'm slowly letting go of the frustration and bitterness, trying to chalk it all up to a learning experience. I've updated my resume and I think I will do some part-time agency work for awhile...less politics, more money. After this died down and I lost my job, my dad ended up at this hospital (end stage COPD, intubated twice, hospitalized for 3 wks). Then I ended up sick (gallstones) and had a lap chole at the same hospital. Very interesting, being on the other side...but I think it's all made me a much better nurse. I'll surely remember it all the next time I take care of another patient...and the next time I look for a new place to work!
May 9, '03I belive that all that you say could have possibly happened, however I also believe that your objectivity decreased as time passed. We nurses are so eager to blame others for things we think we see or hear, when we weren't there to witness what actually happened...do you hear yourself, "they almost killed him"
that's a horrible statement that should never be made without possesion of all the facts without any hearsay. During you time of reflection it would be wise to look at yourself, your relationship, and your future. I will not put you down, I wasn't there, but I will ask that you take a second look at the entire situation.
May 10, '03mfdteacher, thanks for your input. I have reflected on this, more than you know. And they did almost kill him...or would you be more comfortable if I said they didn't intervene when they should have and so he almost died? Same difference.
May 12, '03Not to be argumentative here, but accusations of almost 'killing someone' is a bit different than implying negligence.. I feel there are enough gross exaggerations in the public perception of healthcare without health care professionals adding fuel to the fire.
Also comments like this could be construed rightfully as libel.
This is a public board...many people read this stuff....
Many here have given you kudos but IMO this is a professional boundary issue that may have repercussions for you. What nurses 'feel' on this board will have no bearing on what YOUR BON will rule if push comes to shove.. I hope nothing comes of it , for your sake, but it could. Hope you've saved documentation should you have to defend your actions.
Good luck to you.