Can an LPN train/precept and RN?

[yfloridanurse]

Where I am presently working I seen some practices that I do not think is beneficial. Have you ever have the experience where an LPN train an RN being their preceptor?

I beleive LPN are an asset to anunit, and they can be very prepared but their Scope of Practice differs a lot from the RN as well as being the RN the delegating part to an LPN. What is your opinion in this type of practice?

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

there is no reason whatsoever not to precept a rn in ltc as a lvn...the job descriptions for ltc just do not differ that much to get this uptight over...i guess this also depends on the state but come on.... education does not always make you more qualified...ive precepted many rn's it has nothing to do with who has been in school longer but who is a team player. who knows the job inside and out and who can introduce the new employee to their new role....for goodness sake people you already know how to be a rn are you that insecure or you just afraid that a lvn may have better skills than you... this thread has gone way to far....

i am an lpn in ltc and i absolutely refuse to precept and rn for the position. i don't feel i am qualified to tell someone with more extensive education than mine what, how and why to do it.

[gt4everpn, BSN, RN]

i beg to differ, according to what state you live in the scopes of practices are different, here in ny, i know lpn's can't administer meds through a picc, cannot start iv's (unless they're iv certified) and a few other things like do an initial assessment, but that doesn't mean they don't know how to do these things.. as an lpn, i handle iv's and ivf, do assessment, you name it i probably do it. lpn's for the most part are seen as less skilled as rn's when in reality we treat the same patients and therefore need to be just as skilled, there are no hospital for rn's only or lpn's only for adn or bsn nurses only... lpn's work in med-surg, hospice, any unit, you name it, i've known lpn's with decades of experience on a unit working with new grad rn's or rn's with less experience, don't you think the lpn could teach the new or lesser experienced rn some things? on the other hand i can agree with you, but as far as i'm concerned experience and skills don't make a title, and that's what things are about titles and politics.. titles aren't everything.

[gt4everpn, BSN, RN]

I am currently in school for my RN and I don't see a difference in the curriculums. If people really believe that LPN's are just trained monkeys who don't know the rationales for their nursing care then why do they call us nurses why not educated technicians, why do they give us licenses, why do we administer the same drugs RN's do and give the same care they do. Please people don't fall into the whole higher education thing... higher education is a foot in the door for you to get a higher paying job. I'm dying to learn something new in this RN program I'm in, and I'm not so if going to school for my LPN-RN-BSN degree is supposed to make me a better nurse, I've failed terribly. Have you ever worked at a job or known someone who've worked at a job and is competent but a newer person, less experienced comes along and gets the pay simple because of the degree or title... politics are real people, don't get me wrong if there is a real difference show me one, or establish it, but don't give me this. I truly believe in elevating the profession and better skills training, in my opinion everything is about titles and $$$

[diane227, LPN, RN]

We have an LPN on our unit that acts a preceptor. She has years of experience and knows everything. I also had an LPN at one time that acted as our preceptor for the trauma orientation in our ED. He too, had loads of experience and the right attitude for the job. I had an EMT that would teach the new staff about Cspine precautions, pre hospital care, etc. My goal was to get them trained right, not worry about the credentials of who is training them.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

Sadly, I am seeing in this thread and other similar ones that somehow, the competitiveness between nurses comes out. If it is not the educational level, it is the skills, the practice, the oneupmanship that makes us fight to the bitter end. Sometimes, I wonder if it is actually the other end of the spectrum is being proved...that this is a job that anyone can do, but we, ourselves are making this into a bigger deal than it needs to be.

txspadequeen is correct...maybe this thread is about to go too far.

[yfloridanurse]

Thanks all for your inputs. I have a great respect for LPN, and for the matter for any person jobs. My questions was not about LPN being good nurses or not, was about being appropiate and provide appropiate training, from the skill standpoint I understand and I seen phlebotomist that will get the vein no matter where. But the discussion was not about bashing LPN, or beggining a fight between LPn and RN. I have always worked in ER or ICU, so LPN for the most part are not in that area, due to the many pushes and cardiac medications and drips, which by their scope they are not allow to do in the state of florida. This is a post operative area even though they call it general surgical most of the patients are pre or post op next day, including bariatric patients, and I was not sure was appropiate. Being the Assistant Nurse Manager for the unit and have not being properly trained, and can of learning as I go, I was looking for more of this is common practice versus the bashing about RN vs LPN.

I do apprecciate the responses, but to all LPN that responded, do not get mad or be sacarstic about it. My question I think is very valid, because for a reason we all have different boards and different titles behind the name, experience is good and helps, but I was looking more for appropiateness of the practice, to which I have never being exposed to, and I did not get that but bashing. I have very good friends and coworkers that are LPn and I do respect them and their job, but I want to do good for everybody involved.

Thanks all for your response.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

where i am presently working i seen some practices that i do not think is beneficial. have you ever have the experience where an lpn train an rn being their preceptor?

i beleive lpn are an asset to anunit, and they can be very prepared but their scope of practice differs a lot from the rn as well as being the rn the delegating part to an lpn. what is your opinion in this type of practice?

decades ago, when i was a brand new nurse, i didn't have a preceptor. i was the first bsn hired in a hospital that had it's own diploma program. quite frankly, i was so ill prepared to work at being a nurse they didn't know what to do with me, and i think i would have failed had not a very wise old lpn (probably younger than i am right now, but she sure seemed old and wise to me when i was 21!) taken me under her wing. yes, her scope of practice was different from mine, but she taught me most of what i know. if you're lucky enough to work with such a person, learn absolutely everything you can from her -- she's worth her weight in gold! as for the things i had to do that the lpns couldn't -- she'd still talk me through them!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

regardless of how many differences, there are some and the rn should be precepted to her duties within her scope of practice. question: would you think it ok to have an rn precept a med student?

i wish i had a dollar for every med student i've precepted. or every intern i've taught how to float a swan, pull a balloon pump, etc.

[zuzi]

Oh dears is not about SCOPE OF PRACTICE, are just few thinks more to an RN, and the critical thinking and assesment you have it or not, any RN or nurse practitioner could not train you one that...is or not....is your innner side, plus couple pf techniques.

I seen RNs with 30 years of experience messing a pneumonia with a MIA, loooool, or sending in ER a sore throught after he drank icy tea without any change in VS, loooool, he, he, he, or charge nurses messing them minds around anticoalgulant dosages, or bleeding asses, loooool...please don't tell me about TITLES.

Is about PEOPLE, minds. If LPN is a good normal mind logical analytical... a phenomenon...you will be blessed to be percept by her instead to a messy mind RN...OMG I told it, I told it..... and I am an RN, looool

You make me laugh , he, he... find the person first and after look at her title!

Love you!

Hey Brian I voted yes, (and I am biased, of course, lol) but you need to change the pool, adding qualifiers for RN and LPN, i told ya, loool

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

Thanks all for your inputs. I have a great respect for LPN, and for the matter for any person jobs. My questions was not about LPN being good nurses or not, was about being appropiate and provide appropiate training, from the skill standpoint I understand and I seen phlebotomist that will get the vein no matter where. But the discussion was not about bashing LPN, or beggining a fight between LPn and RN. I have always worked in ER or ICU, so LPN for the most part are not in that area, due to the many pushes and cardiac medications and drips, which by their scope they are not allow to do in the state of florida. This is a post operative area even though they call it general surgical most of the patients are pre or post op next day, including bariatric patients, and I was not sure was appropiate. Being the Assistant Nurse Manager for the unit and have not being properly trained, and can of learning as I go, I was looking for more of this is common practice versus the bashing about RN vs LPN.

I do apprecciate the responses, but to all LPN that responded, do not get mad or be sacarstic about it. My question I think is very valid, because for a reason we all have different boards and different titles behind the name, experience is good and helps, but I was looking more for appropiateness of the practice, to which I have never being exposed to, and I did not get that but bashing. I have very good friends and coworkers that are LPn and I do respect them and their job, but I want to do good for everybody involved.

Thanks all for your response.

Your concerns on this topic are valid. I think that the conversation was going smoothly until we (LPNs) were reduced to having a conveyor belt mentality; with no rhyme or reason for what we do. The way things are at this point is 'anything goes'. There does not seem to be any consistency anymore. Nurse satisfaction has decreased, so, people were moving around from facility to facility, so, not many people grew roots. Because of that, we have no choice, sometimes, but to rely on spotty mentors. This is why I say that I will go to the person who has done it most of the time, has survived and wants to teach. Unfortunately, we can't have it all, matching title to title, even if it were better in the long run.

[NewLynney]

Like most, off the top of my head, I say "no" but it really depends on the setting

My Masters Trained professor was trained completing her RN preceptorship at Grady (trauma center) Hospital in Atlanta GA, and she is both proud and grateful to say and LPN trained her. Those LPN's often make suggestions of what physicians need to do! They advocate with an excellent command of systems, rationale, outcome and anything else you need to know. Grady is kinda like New York. If you can make it there...

Finally, do not be discouraged by the credentials a person has, assess (pun intended) their knowledge level. I know an eight-year MA that is smarter, wiser, and more knowledgeable than most RN's. She probes and ferrets out information, diligently studies medications, disease processes, clinical trials, etc. She belongs to several nursing organizations, and applies education in practice and for crying out loud VOLUNTEERS! She chooses, for personal reasons, not to pursue a degree, but I've known her to perform minor emergency surgery in crisis situations and would put my life in her hands in a minute.

[DLS_PMHNP, MSN, RN, NP]

Yes, especially since you need to understand what the role of the LPN is.

However, they should only train you on duties inside their scope of practice (med passes, dressing changes, etc).

I'm an RN and had a LPN preceptor for a few days. She was fantastic!

Best,

Diane